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"Don't you ever get tired of 'Doctor'? Doctor Who?"

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by Canon, Mar 6, 2012.

  1. Canon

    Canon Well-Known Member

    I was meant to be watching new WHO with Christine but she abandoned me so she could go rewatch Saved By The Bell: The College Years.

    So I've had to start this journey alone and I'm really digging it so far, much more than I ever thought I would. I've always been fascinated by the idea of WHO but in the end it was Eccleston & Piper that sucked me in.

    The best episodes so far, Dalek & Father's Day have been the ones that relate directly to their characters, the Doctor's exchange with the Dalek in Dalek was both fascinating & strangely moving.

    Doctor: The Daleks have failed! Why don't you finish the job and make the Daleks extinct. Rid the universe of your filth. WHY DON'T YOU JUST DIE!?
    Dalek: You would make a good Dalek.

    Was that piece of metal really trying to make out that it & the Doctor were one and the same? Eccleston played it so well that I could visualise the Doctor's whole backstory with the Daleks as the scene went on.

    Father's Day belongs to Piper as Rose but it was again the Doctor that got me, from telling Rose that he too had considered going back to save his people to his scene with the bride when she tells him that she knows that she & her boyfriend aren't important, the Doctor shocked replies...

    I've travelled to all sorts of places. Done things you couldn't even imagine, but... you two... street corner. Two in the morning. Getting a taxi home. I've never had a life like that.


    John Barrowman turned up in the last episodes I watched and surprisingly I didn't once feel like gouging my eyes out. In fact I quite like this trio, the playfulness of their relationship reminds me of Angel, Cordy & Doyle and also similar in that they are three people who are a bit lost in the world but have still managed to find each other. And sadly of course the line up of each group didn't last very long.

    I've really only just begun yet I've only two Eccleston episodes left! It's Doyle all over again.



  2. Canon

    Canon Well-Known Member


    The Doctor: [hologram turns to face Rose, and with a full voice] "Have a good life. Do that for me, Rose. Have a fantastic life."

    It's funny that Bad Wolf, a episode that starts off as what you might think would be an average adventure (guest starring Tanya from EastEnders, wasn't her stepson a big WHO fan?) could bring you to a full on thrilling, emotional draining episode that is The Parting of the Ways.

    I'm not sure I understood how the Daleks managed to survive the Time War or what exactly their plan was but it proves too much for the Doctor who tricks Rose into returning home. Once home she's greeted by Mickey & Jackie but quickly disappoints them when she tells them that she no longer belongs at home.

    Rose: "But what do I do every day, Mum? Get up. Go to work. Catch the bus, eat chips, and go to bed."
    Mickey: It's what the rest of us do.
    Rose: But I can't.

    In a brilliant, mind twisting scene Rose reveals to Jackie that she was the girl who was with her dad when he died. Jackie can't accept this and storms out but soon returns with a truck to help Rose open the thingy in the Tardis. Mickey & Jackie look on as Rose leaves them yet again.

    (Shades of Cordy in Angel S3 when she's given the chance to give up the visions and have a normal life, she refuses and finds her way back to her champion.)

    The reveal that "Bad Wolf" is actually Rose is such a cool idea. However it's too much for Rose's body and to save her, the Doctor must absorb the "Bad Wolf" and like when Doyle wanted to pass the visions on to Cordy and later when Cordy passed the visions on to Angel, it has to be done with a kiss. And in each case the kiss is the payoff.

    And then the Doctor as we know him has gone.

    Btw any rumours that I cried during this episode are just vicious lies.


    "You were fantastic and so was I."


    "Too bad we'll never know...if this is a face you could learn to love."


    "Oh, and you're welcome."

    Yes I'm going to make as many references to Angel as possible and no I'm not struggling to do so, they really are there.
  3. James from London

    James from London Well-Known Member

    Everyone's forgotten now, but at the time Billie Piper was a really controversial casting choice. An irritating child pop star who then eloped with Chris Evans and had no track record as an actress? It didn't make a lot of sense. And when she turned out to be a total revelation as Rose, it kind of resulted in Christopher Eccleston's equally good performance being overlooked.

    Yes, not even Barrowman could ruin DOCTOR WHO. In fact, as this (as opposed to the TORCHWOOD) version of Captain Jack, he's great.

    Oh well, there'll be another two-boys-and-a-girl dynamic along in the next season. That's quite ANGEL too isn't it? The fluid line up of, um, crime-fighters/travellers/whatever you wanna call them,

    Now that killed me.

    After I started watching EASTENDERS again about five or six years ago, it took me ages to realise than Tanya was the BIG BROTHER girl from DOCTOR WHO. I remember thinking when I first saw her what a good companion she'd make ... if only she hadn't been exterminated.

    There's all kinds of WHO/ENDERS connections and overlaps. Both series have referenced each other as a fictional TV show--a conundrum that Doctor Who Magazine attempted to resolve in a special issue dedicated to its soap connections. My favourite ref was in ENDERS when Charlie Slater, played by Derek Martin who was a regular stuntman in the original WHO series, discussed the Christian and Syed scandal with Ricky. Ricky assures him that gays are commonplace these days - they're even in DOCTOR WHO. "Wasn't like that in my day," replies Charlie. And then on one of the DVD commentaries for DOCTOR WHO, Louise Jameson points out that Derek Martin cost her her job in EASTENDERS, when her family (the Di Marcos) were phased out to make room for the Slaters. And her love interest in ENDERS was played by Leslie Schofield, with whom she appeared in WHO, etc. etc.

    Get used to it. There's whole swathes of plotting in New WHO that I can't quite get to grips with. It rarely spoils my enjoyment at the time. It's only afterwards that I start to think, "Hang on, what just happened?"


    That's so interesting. I remember being struck, the first time I saw "Rose", that this was DOCTOR WHO for the BUFFY generation. It's told from the girl's point of view, she's comparatively fearless, and much is made of what she has to leave behind in order to go on this new journey. Funnily enough, it was the first series of TORCHWOOD that reminded me of ANGEL. It was so clumsily inept, it seemed to me the writers had consumed the entire ANGEL box set and were immediately attempting to make their own version of Season 3 or 4 of that show, without any understanding of the building bricks it had taken the Whedon kids to get to that point.
  4. Stimpy

    Stimpy Well-Known Member

    well i love the current version of "Doctor Who" to be honest. though the 10th one i think you are going to enjoy even more.
    but in my opinion where i read that people don't like it. yet they still for some reason watch it? i have to agree with you James it's today's "Buffy" generation the show is made for. we didn't have no love story in the original show. which is fine with me, but the generation was also different. well the audiences are i mean.

    by the way, make you sure watch that 'Children of the need' episode i dunno if that's on the dvd/blu-ray set you have? but if not i'm sure you tube has it, if you don't download stuff. anyways, when watching the current version of the show.

    keep in mind that it is totally different in a way than the original show. this one has story arcs, love triangles. & comedy as well. & though it is a continuation of the original show. i honestly am kinda glad it's different. the budgets to me look actually bigger. the CGI fits with the show. on the dvd's of the original show when they add it in. i like they give you the option of watching either serial with it or without it.

    anyways it fits with the way the shows are today. it's i think more or less a tribute to the original show. at least it feels that way to me. as in the original show there's going to be companions you like better than others. & doctors as well. for me "Christopher E." did a great job. but when i was his tenure on the show, it's really NOT until the last couple of episodes where it feels like he's starting to feel comfy in the role. & he's at his best in his last episode. so it really pissed me off when i found out he was only going to do 1 season.

    anyways but i hope you are enjoying it. keep us updated will ya?
  5. Canon

    Canon Well-Known Member

    I remember that, all that fuss about Piper is why I watched some of the eps at the time.

    I can just imagine all the negativity Piper's casting got on Doctor Who forums, months & months of negative speculation based on nothing. It's why I'm hoping that the new Dallas will be a revelation in every way possible. Though maybe the WHO fans were a lot calmer.

    It's funny because I didn't think about the fact that she hadn't even joined EE at this time. Tanya feels like a character that's been around longer than she actually has.

    I loved the little relationship that formed between her & the Doctor, the way he stretched out his hand for her to come with him just like he did to Rose at the end of the first episode, the way she put Rose's nose out of joint and the look at the Doctor's face when he realised that she had been exterminated.

    That's brilliant, not for Jameson of course.

    Yeah I thought that a couple of times. Didn't the Daleks destroy most of earth in this episode? I don't think anyone comments on that and I can't understand why the Doctor didn't just travel back in time to stop that spaceship being taken over.

    Just as well it's such a great character show.

    Tennant? Oh I'm sure I'll enjoy it and I'll post on here about how much I'm still loving it but all the while I'll be secretly hating him for not being Eccleston.

    The Children In Need special? Yes I plan to watch that before the next Season though I'm going to do some of the old stuff first.
  6. Ome

    Ome Moderator Staff Member

    That's exactly how I felt during the first few Tennant episodes, but surprising by the end of Tennant's first year I had forgotten all about Eccleston. (Yeah I'm that loyal)I remember watching back the Eccleston episodes on UK Gold and thinking what did I like about him.
  7. sunshineboyuk

    sunshineboyuk Well-Known Member

    Where the Daleks are concerned you have to kinda suspend your disbelief. The whole Dalek story does make broad sense , its told from all sorts of different timelines so it's easy to go with.
    GENESIS OF THE DALEKS is part of ( allegedly) the Time War, in fact its arguable that the Doctor and the Time Lords started the war by interfering with their development.
    The Doctor cannot go back in his own timeline, so he can't nip back during an adventure and change what has just happened ( see EARTHSHOCK and THE WATERS OF MARS).

    Series 2 with Tenant is fabulous, such a great ride. The relationship between the 10th Doctor and Rose is very interesting indeed during this series. I think Piper's brilliance in WHO is pretty unrivalled with the exception of Liz Sladen. My personal favourite is Catherine Tate's Donna, but then you have all that to look forward to......
  8. sunshineboyuk

    sunshineboyuk Well-Known Member

    p.s I didn't really fully appreciate series 2 the first time round, I thought it was Ok but now I often re watch eps and some of them are just stunning, I suppose it felt understated first time round. It's really all about the relationship and i sort of missed that first time round...
  9. Stimpy

    Stimpy Well-Known Member

    honestly after my 1st doctor which was the 9th doctor. i didn't like 'Tennat" at first either. cause i was so badly missing "Christopher
    Eccleston" & it took me awhile to like the 10th doctor. & the same for the current doctor. pretty much it's the same way for all the doctors for me. i get so damn used to watching a certain doctor. that when their tenure ends & another begins. i miss the one before

    & it takes me awhile to get used to the current one. an example would be right now i'm in the middle of watching the 4th doctor stories.
    near the end of "Liz Sladen's tenure on the show. serial #86 i think? "The Mask of M." i'm to lazy to look up the actual title. he he.

    & when i do go back & watch the start of the current show, it takes me awhile to get used to that doctor & by the time i do. his time is bloody done! errrrrrrgh! & it again takes me awhile to get used to "Tennant' one thing i do like about the current show, is the character development is pretty good on it.

    i mean there of course is one thing they did at the end on one season that i didn't like. but since you aren't on that season just yet i won't say what it is. & each companion has a story arc that fits into that season pretty much. with "Rose" it's Bad wolf" of course. & there are ones for the other companions as well. though "Captain Jack" really doesn't have one. he isn't really a companion. & he later did join 'Torchwood" so what's nice is that after "Rose" time is done you do find out later what's up? like when "Donna" time is done. no i won't say what happend. but out of that season i just love

    the character of her Grandfather. & i still think that 'Unit" should be used on the show more often than it has been to be honest.
    i hope i i didn't spoil any too much. if i did can someone put the spoiler tag on it for me? i dunno what would be considered a spoiler

    he he
  10. Stimpy

    Stimpy Well-Known Member

    i mean of what all i said. thanxs.
  11. Canon

    Canon Well-Known Member



    An Unearthly Child

    I have to admit I didn't have the greatest impression of old WHO, the clips I'd seen always seemed to be of actors running around on dodgy looking studio sets so I was pleasantly surprised by this episode. It had such presence, the first 15 minutes was like watching 60's CORRIE. It's all so fascinating to me and slightly eerie then there's that fantastic theme tune, move over EMMERDALE FARM I've got a new ringtone! ;)

    Susan is cool, it feels like she should be dancing over at the Blue Whale with Carolyn & Joe. So when she refers to him as her grandfather it's only in a affectionate way right, he isn't really her grandfather? Either way it couldn't be more different to the set up between Rose & her Doctor.

    The scene where Susan's teacher touches the TARDIS and proclaims that it's alive is such brilliant moment especially when you consider what happened in the last episode I watched. So if the TARDIS is alive, does that mean it could hook up with Moya from FARSCAPE? lol

    Not sure what to make of the 1st Doctor.

    Intrigued! So can I watch GENESIS OF THE DALEKS straight after these early episodes?

    That's outrageous Ome. Just outrageous.
  12. sunshineboyuk

    sunshineboyuk Well-Known Member

    Yes. GENESIS can be watched immediately. It's kind of the ultimate WHO. You MUST watch it before you hit series 4 of new who .

    Yes about Susan being at home in The Blue Whale, she's very DARK SHADOWS isn't she, brilliant observation!

    And yeah about the show looking crap. It does look like a load of bollocks if you dont understand it, Catherine Tate watched Fathers Day and thought it looked really naff , when she then joined the show and realised what it was about she had a lightbulb moment apparently.
  13. Ome

    Ome Moderator Staff Member

    Yep, loyal and outrageous that's me.

    I'll check in on you and see how you're doing when you've seen the Tennant years. Not that I'm suggesting you would be as disloyal as me... lol
  14. Stimpy

    Stimpy Well-Known Member

    well "Susan' is said to his grandaughter. but honestly with all these different incarnations we've had, it's NOW up to debate. they never said she offically was. i mean hell look at "Ace" calling him 'Professor. even though he wasn't one. after the 1st doctor left, we really never hear about Susan again. other than in 'The Five Doctors"

    i'm sure she on a a RARE occassion gets mentioned. but not by much.
  15. Canon

    Canon Well-Known Member


    The Cave of Skulls

    Some really great shots like the one above but the episode drags on a bit. There is a lengthy sequence where the cavemen are trying to make fire, they're a bit hard to take seriously as the actors playing them are all...acTORS.

    The idea of Ian and Barbara coming along for the ride is an interesting one, it's kind of like Mickey & Jackie. Still not sure what to make of the 1st Doctor.

    Oh. I'd be interested enough to keep watching just to see what becomes of Susan.
  16. Stimpy

    Stimpy Well-Known Member

    well THAT they actually do tell you in fact. early in Season 2. the 1st doctor hmmm... the way to look it at is this, whenever i start at the very Start of the series, he''s written & played as a grumpy old codger. & pretty much an unlikable character. who just travels with Susan. & from my understanding really only talks with her. i'm going by what they show us of course. but given that "Ian & Barbra" kinda forced themselves on them.

    i realize that, in an episode of the current show which i watched recently. i think it was during the "Tennat" years he goes at the start he always thought he was important. so that may explain him a bit. but i think this current form of him you are watching is how he was originally written. than the writers & my guess "William Hartnell" realized they need to connect with the audience.

    so they made him more likable. which was i think a smart idea. cause once he warms up to you & unfrosts. he can be a funny guy as well. & hearing him call "Ian" the 3,000 different name but his own.

    is funny as hell. & i agree that "The Caves of skulls' & the well the 2nd half isn't as good as the 1st part but it was originally meant to be a historic show. & i believe had to be talked into adding aliens & so forth into the show. so until (1967) it went back & forth with having aliens in it. & non aliens, & historical serials.

    anyways,the next serial YOU WILL LOVE my friend. it's easily what made the show a hit. but the next one after that i believe
    is a 2 parter. where well "Barbra" SHINES she's fantasitc in it. & her acting is Superb.

    sorry about my spelling. he he. as you can tell i'm trying not to give any spoilers if you haven't seen these yet. but i've got a couple questions. 1. did you buy these & if so what serial number are you up too? i dunno if you have the recons or not which is why i ask.

    & 2. which is partly my question of my 1st question did you download these? & if so how far are you into the show downloading wise?
    & if ya didn't. that's fine not everyone download. & if ya want to watch them in order. without downloading them. i dunno about certain serials. but i think you tube will have "Marco Polo" as a recon for you to watch.
  17. Stimpy

    Stimpy Well-Known Member

    by the way i agree with ya that is a great shot.
  18. James from London

    James from London Well-Known Member

    Same thing happened with Matt Smith. Then his first episode is broadcast and everyone shuts up.

    Me too.

    ha ha!

    Oh there's a whole ... thing about how the Doctor can't travel back in time in order to resolve story-lines. That's what Father's Day was about, I guess. But that doesn't stop him doing it on occasion, before and after the Eccleston series. And it always feels like a dirty smelly cop out.

    Heck, by the end of Smith's first episode I'd forgotten all about Tennant.

    Yeah I felt the same way for a long time. Funnily enough, I shared a flat in the mid 90s (when my interest in WHO was at its lowest) with one of the Doctor's companions from 80s (and who, though I would not realise it until the invention of the internet, is considered quite the worst companion of all time). As a kid, he had been a big fan himself, but since being on the show had put away such childish things. During the time we lived together, he started to re-embrace WHO and would watch grainy old videos of the first Doctor, but I found them so decrepit as to be unwatchable. So when I finally took the plunge and started investigating 60s WHO, (on viewer friendly DVD, mind) I was, like you, pleasantly surprised. That said, there's an awful lot of actors running around on dodgy looking studio sets. I've seen four episodes from the Hartnell era so far, and it's been a pretty even exchange of iconic moments and tedium.

    What struck me was how much more alien and disturbing the theme music and opening credits were in 1963 than in 2005. I mean, this was before psychedelia or anything. People can have had absolutely no frame of reference for that noise or those visuals!

    Back in olden times (i.e. 2007), when you could still record your own ring tone on your phone, I had DARK SHADOWS as mine. I was cool as.

    Paging DARK FALCON. And I'm not leaving till that bitch twists her ankle on the dance floor.

    Your guess is as good as anyone else's.

    Although the first episode did remind me a little of "Rose", in that the girl is our way into the story, that it begins in contemporary, pop cultural london. There's even a reference to an actual pop star in the first scene of "An Unearthly Child", I think. I forget who.

    Yes, I made the same connection when I watched it.

    Don't mention the F word. I think I'm gonna start it tonight.

    Not exactly heroic, is he?

    Man, the beauty of WHO, or at least old WHO, is that you can do it any which way. OK, say you were to do a story with each Doctor in turn, these are the ones voted most popular (that are available on DVD) by the readers of Doctor Who Magazine in their Top 200 Poll:

    2nd Doc: Tomb of the Cybermen

    3rd: Inferno

    4th: Talons of Weng Chiang (although Genesis of the Daleks is equally brilliant)

    5th: Caves of Androzani

    6th: Revelation of the Daleks

    7th: Remembrance of the Daleks (or Ghost Light, if you're a bit Dalek'd out by this point; they're both equally shit)

    8th: The TV Movie (not a lot of choice admittedly, but it's the one WHO that really reminds me of ANGEL)

    Oh and speaking as one for whom the novelty of DVD extras has long past, the ones on classic WHO are always worth checking out. Avoid reading the jacket blurb though. Spoilers!
  19. Canon

    Canon Well-Known Member

    Jackie: "What d'you mean, 'That's the Doctor'? Doctor Who?"


    The Christmas Invasion

    aka London gets invaded again.

    Some cool stuff in this episode, those Santas looked great and the rotating killer Christmas Tree was fun.

    The Imposter Doctor takes to bed with the flu or something so it's up to Rose to try & stop London from being taken over, you sure wouldn't call all these aliens Anglophiles that's for sure. That nice lady who Rose & the Doctor ran into at Downing Street during the last invasion has now become PM. I struggled to buy into all of that (mostly because the actress comes across exactly the same in Downton Abbey) until the end when she orders the alien ship to be shot down which infuriates the Doctor. Suddenly the Doctor has this interesting relationship with someone who isn't Rose, it's a great scene & I hope to see the lady PM again for more conflict with the Doctor.

    Rose: (voice shaking slightly) "The Doctor wouldn't do this. The old Doctor. The proper Doctor. He'd wake up. He'd save us."

    Yeah you tell him Rose! This animated weakling is not our Doctor!

    The Doctor: "Well... back to the TARDIS... same old life."

    Rose: (tentatively) "On-- on your own?"

    The Doctor: "Why, don't you wanna come?"

    Rose: "Well, yeah."

    The Doctor: "Do you, though?"

    Rose: "Yeah!"

    You're a fu*king traitor Rose! You will never have the same connection with him as he is not really our Doctor!

    Or is he...



  20. sunshineboyuk

    sunshineboyuk Well-Known Member

    Ha, oh how you will live to regret those words. You have no idea.... Stay tuned!

    By the way... GENESIS OF THE DALEKS is the one. TALONS is fab and brilliant but GENESIS has it all. It's the Davros performance that gives it the edge over TALONS.
    INFERNO is still sitting on my shelf, must watch it tonight!!

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