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Pam vs JR

Discussion in 'Dallas - The Original Series' started by Sarah, Aug 8, 2017.

  1. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator 10 Years on Soap Chat 5 Years on Soap Chat

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    I know what you mean. JR locking himself up in that Sanatarium was just so crazy! :(
     
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  2. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    Kenny we all view Dallas differently. Ewing Oil is exactly what the war is over, always has, always will be. Pam and JR may have been working for the same company but no way in hell was JR going to have that Barnes woman at Ewing Oil under any circumstances despite your argument they should be working together for the betterment of their respective sons. JR wanted Ewing Oil all to himself and John Ross. He even went as far as mortgaging Southfork without Jock, Miss Ellie and the extended family knowing of it. There was no limit to JR's manipulations (and I loved the character because of it).

    That said. By the time of Bobby's death I felt the writers were setting up a grudge match between Pam and JR. All the scenes were there from the beginning. JR offering money to Pam to leave Southfork and Bobby. Utilizing Ray's services to make it look like he and Pam had rekindled their romance. JR getting Cliff arrested in full view of Pam. Pam confronting JR outside his office building the following day. JR manipulating Pam into believing Mark was receiving treatment somewhere in the Caribbean which resulted her in finding out;

    Pam; "Just tell me why? I was out of your life, out of your families life, off your precious Southfork.
    And she continues; "Well that won't stop me anymore. You have not heart, you have no feelings, you can't be hurt like other people, But you have one soft spot, one weakness and that's Ewing Oil, the only thing you've ever really loved.....and Cliff and Jamie and I are going to take your company away from you...and then I'm gonna watch you hurt."

    And by the way...in part, JR was responsible for Bobby's death because of his involvement with Katherine in splitting up our Romeo and Juliet. The reading of Bobby's Will further cemented my theory the writers were steering us towards a knock down, drag out battle between JR and Pam. From the opening episode it felt organic. Some will argue Pam did not have the business brains regarding oil but the writers could easily have had two other characters by her side; Cliff and Mark, if Bobby had remained dead.

    With regards to this thread. I've always felt both JR and Pam were integral to Dallas. Once one was removed (Pam) the show lost its core story, the friction between the Ewing and Barnes families.
     
  3. Barbara Fan

    Barbara Fan Super Moderator 5 Nomination Wins World Cup Champion 2014 15 Years on Soap Chat 10 Years on Soap Chat 5 Years on Soap Chat

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    Dallas was an ensemble show and needed every one of the main characters, without them it didnt work and each played their part in the shows success.

    Reference final season - larry and patrick were not Dallas and it failed (and it was awful with crappy second rate actors filling the shoes of original cast members) as it was bad and people stopped viewing.

    When i watch Dallas now I never watch EO, business or Office scenes now, as i find them dull, its family scenes, SF, relationships and the women in particular that i like and Pam Barnes Ewing is at the centre of it as her link to the Barnes family past (Digger) present (Cliff)

    For those of us around in 1978 - 80, Larry was the star and generated the most press and headlines in UK press

    by 1984, it was Victoria P, she dominated the press and headlines and was in it daily, she was HOT news wise
    for me she was the LINK to everything about Dallas (Ewing V Barnes, as in Cliff and Digger, and with ewing V Ewing ie Bobby and his relationship with his family)

    For me her departure was the beginning of the end and the show suffered most over her leaving than any other cast member who subsequently left, like it or not she was essential.

    With TNT Dallas - Larry was the undoubted star of it (not that he had a lot of competition!) and his sad death meant a death knell for crappy Cidre's version and to be honest it couldnt come quick enough, and i still regret it was ever made as it tainted my feelings somewhat.
     
  4. StrangerDynastyTreeNat89

    StrangerDynastyTreeNat89 Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    Don't let TNT Dallas taint Dallas mk1 for you
    @Barbara Fan I see them as being not canon like the way TNT disregarded the 90s reunion films.

    Yes Dallas was an esembled piece, which was the reason why I prefer Dallas over Dynasty, yes while JR was the heart and Pam was the energy, the rest of them formed the stable body that held Dallas together for an entire decade! Each and every character on Dallas had a storyline in the early days and it sadly fell apart once the seams that held it together slowly got torn away.
     
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  5. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    I could also add the last few seasons of Lorimar Dallas tainted my appreciation of Dallas but thankfully my personal DVD collection stops at Swan Song. Apart from that last season with Donna Reed, everything up until this point was magnificent. Sooner rather than later my DVD's are going to stop as I've viewed them so many times. Then there will be tears.
     
  6. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    So true. I'm puzzled why it took so long for TNT Dallas to appear on our screens after it was rumored in 2009 to finally making an appearance in 2012. Every time Larry appeared on screen it lit up, especially if he had scenes with Linda. Gee I miss seeing this dynamic couple on television.
     
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  7. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator 15 Years on Soap Chat 10 Years on Soap Chat 5 Years on Soap Chat

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    Agreed Rove!!! They are so dynamic together!!!! :kiss:

    I don't really know how it can be an ensemble show, but Victoria be essential? That's kind of a contradiction to me. I can't agree it suffered the most after her departure. JMO. I grew up in the 80's and for me it was always always Larry and Linda. I never saw the attraction with VP but that's just me. (Disclaimer not arguing Pam's place in the show!) ;) I do think it started with Pam but soon went in a different direction. That again isn't disputing what she meant.

    Having said that I fell in love with Sue Ellen at a very early stage in Dallas' development and as JR said 'I couldn't see any of them but her...'. I think that's the beauty of Dallas - such a great cast that you could choose who was most important to you and make them your central character. You love that character and appreciate their own story all the more.

    Just as a side note - is Cliff as important as Pam??
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  8. Presea

    Presea Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    JR had already fell apart even before Sue Ellen left the show. He had already developed his perverse attraction to Cally, let the evil people of Haleyville make him into their slave without planning to pay them back later, married Cally, let Sue Ellen and Jeremy Wendell foil his plans with Westar Oil, lost the contest for Ewing Oil to that goody-two shoed imbecile Bobby, let Cliff make out like a bandit with Gold Canyon 340, lost Ewing Oil, almost got his son killed by working with a terrorist, wasted a bunch of time with Mandy, almost married Kimberly Cryder, etc.
     
  9. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely! Without Cliff in the series Pam would really have no one to defend against the Ewing family - especially JR. This is what created the drama throughout Dallas. I think that's why I tend to agree with others when they say this was an ensemble show.
     
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  10. Seaviewer

    Seaviewer Soap Chat Fan 15 Years on Soap Chat 10 Years on Soap Chat 5 Years on Soap Chat

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    A good explanation for the otherwise inexplicable.
     
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  11. Soaplover

    Soaplover Soap Chat Member

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    Pam was essential..yet the show was an ensemble. You could even argue Lucy was essential for the simple fact that she was a reminder of the lengths JR would go in the past and that his actions had consequences.

    I did like that confrontation between Pam and JR where she asked why he did the whole mark scheme stating she was out of the family's life..and that she would back Cliff if he ever waged war. I think Bobby staying dead would have bought Pam vs JR to fruitation..imho
     

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