Bobby and Pam's Marriage During The Contest

Discussion in 'Dallas - The Original Series' started by Kenny Coyote, Aug 30, 2019.

  1. Lastkidpicked

    Lastkidpicked Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    One of the best parts of the story line is where Bobby takes Pam along with him to the restaurant so he can personally observe his setup of Hicks. Bobby knows this is wrong, and is struggling with it. Pam is talking to Bobby while Bobby watches the Hicks setup.

    It's almost as if Pam is quite literally the voice of Bobby's conscience.

    Pam: I'm worried about you, Bobby. I'm worried about us. Cliff told me you forced the cartel to buy you out.
    Bobby: It was a business deal, pure and simple
    Pam: They said you pushed them to the wall
    Bobby: Honey, I'm in business (notices the prostitute entering the room for the setup) I do what I have to do.
    Pam: No matter who gets hurt?
    Bobby: Nobody's going to get hurt
    Pam: Everybody is going to get hurt.
    Bobby: Let's just enjoy the evening. (watches the prostitute start in on George Hicks) Everything is going to be fine. . . It's going to be just fine.

    In that scene, you can imagine that it's not Pam talking to Bobby, but his conscience talking to him. Very well written scene.
     
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  2. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    OK, last week I asked how people would have preferred Bobby to respond to JR's bribing of Hicks instead of blackmailing Hicks.

    Not one member of the forum responded with an idea for how Bobby could have responded that they think would have been better. That tells me that Bobby's response was actually pretty damn good, because 36 years is a long time for people to come up with something better. I don't know why so many have said Bobby was bad to do it, that it showed Bobby had become bad, if they can't offer up any plan of action for Bobby, regarding Hicks, that they would have preferred!

    Here's an excerpt from my post from last Thursday:

    "As for blackmailing Hicks, I don't like what Bobby did but it's far from being as bad as JR. Remember, JR instigated that situation by bribing Hicks to vote his way. Had JR not done that, there wouldn't have been a problem. Once Bobby found out JR was bribing Hicks, I guess he could have offered to give Hicks an even bigger bribe, but that just perpetuates the problem because JR can then offer Hicks even more, and it just goes on. If Bobby just allows JR to bribe Hicks and doesn't respond, JR probably wins the contest.. How is that good for anyone except JR? I have to think that JR in sole control of Ewing Oil would have done far worse things than bribe Hicks to vote his way from time to time. So I guess you could say Bobby was being proactive. It wasn't ideal, but do you have an ideal solution? How would you have liked Bobby to handle that particular situation?
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019 at 10:57 PM
  3. Lastkidpicked

    Lastkidpicked Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    This is such a great question, Kenny. And I have an answer that is way out there, but I believe it would have made for a happier Bobby Ewing.

    Get ready for this:

    Think about King Solomon. When two women claimed to be the mother of a baby, King Solomon ruled that the baby be cut in half, and each woman would receive half of the baby.

    The REAL mother begged, "No, just give the baby to my rival. I'd rather be without the baby than see him destroyed."

    Do you remember a few seasons before the contest? J.R. telling Sue Ellen, "I'm going to bring Bobby down. I'm going to cut him out. . . if I have to destroy Ewing Oil to do it!"

    What if Bobby began to realize that Ewing Oil, along with many people, could be destroyed by the contest? And Bobby makes this announcement:

    "I am watching this company damaged by short term gains that will cost this family dearly in the long term. I will give up my side of the fight because a strong Ewing Oil is what's best for this family. I will not allow J.R. to destroy the entire company just so he can rule over the ashes."
     
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  4. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    Hey @Lastkidpicked, I like that. You're the first person to offer any substance to the situation Bobby was in, rather than just saying, "What Bobby did was bad."

    It's easy to say something is bad. It's a lot harder to say "That was bad, and this would have been better."

    The other situation Bobby gets a lot of flack for is setting up Driscoll with the guns in his briefcase If Bobby does nothing in that situation, he's allowing his company to ship oil to Cuba. That's a serious enough felony to where the government, had it found out, would have taken Ewing Oil away from them. It wouldn't have just taken "JR's half of the company"; it would have seized the entire company. He can't let that happen. So what do you do in that situation? If Bobby told the government what was happening, about the oil shipment, he'd still be risking the entire company. He'd also be risking going to prison for what JR did. Why would he find that acceptable? Bobby gets a lot of flack for planting the guns, but I never hear anyone offering a better way for Bobby to handle that.
     
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  5. Laurie!

    Laurie! Soap Chat Member

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    Ummm, I told you that Bobby's honest deal is what ultimately won him the company. Becoming a crooked, criminal to defeat one is never a solution.

    Do you have any idea what a ridiculous concept the 1 year fight for Ewing Oil was? Instant profits, that ensure long term debt for the company was JR's asinine M.O. for winning. Obviously Jock wouldn't have given a damn about Ewing Oil's long term prosperity by creating such an obvious scenario...however, it provided a good storyline.
     
  6. Toni

    Toni Soap Chat Star

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    I´ve always thought that Jock´s last codicil was reason enough to overturn the contest for good and annul the results of the fight for Ewing Oil. "I made you ruin your lives for my damn company. Now hug and run it together you b*tches!". No judge would deny that. Too bad Miss Ellie didn´t know about it when she took them to court. To me it was a proof of something I always suspected: that good ol´ Jock had been gaga for years and years...and pretended to be the perfect patriarch. :re: Oh yeah, ask Amanda and Sam Culver´s dead uncle...The will showed the kind of man that Jock really was though: an old-school manipulative pseudo-tyrant with no parenting skills...Poor, poor Ellie...

    upload_2019-9-10_23-16-48.jpeg

    "Miss Ellie, "It´s a Wonderful Life" is on TV, why dontcha come in?"
    "Oh you bast*rd, just f*ck off!!"​
     
  7. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    Jock didn't make them do anything. He presented them with an opportunity they were free to accept or to not accept.

    The purpose of the contest was to make them respect each other for their abilities. Remember, Jock wrote in his will that it had always been his deepest hope that JR and Bobby would run Ewing Oil together. He saw that wasn't going to happen the way things were going. What he'd been trying, so that they'd respect and cooperate with each other, wasn't working.

    When what you've been doing hasn't been working you need to take a different approach. Jock did. He offered them a challenge, which, should they both choose to accept it, would finally force them to respect each other's abilities as oilmen. The truth would be undeniable. It would make them unable to deny the fact they were much stronger together than apart. Each had unique gifts and abilities the other didn't.

    Tell me that's a joke. You're kidding, right?
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019 at 5:57 AM
  8. Toni

    Toni Soap Chat Star

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    I disagree with you (kindly). An adult man (or woman too) doesn´t / shouldn´t need to prove to anyone, and less daddy and mummy, that they can get more money in one year than their brother. That will did great TV (probably it was the core of "Dallas" in a way) but I think that IRL that would prove that both were clearly weak, immature people who needed that acceptance for every thing they did out of the household. Come on, Pam was the true force behind Bobby during the first 2 years, even when she was whiney and insecure, there was a woman who tried to act with justice and equality, and be fair to her husband and her brother. I think that´s why many of us consider the "Dallas" heroine. Putting myself in her place, I´d never have stood one minute with J.R. by the pool looking at my t*ts (you know what I mean) or at dinner saying nasty things about my family. She was the queen of patience.

    upload_2019-9-15_11-8-23.jpeg

    She´s so beautiful, isn´t she?
    Funny the year isn´t visible... (cough, cough)​

    Tell me that's a joke. You're kidding, right?[/QUOTE]

    About Jock being gaga, well, of course it´s (half) a joke, but a number of times we saw old Jock resting and he suddenly seemed to wake up and say: "Dammit, I need a bourbon" (or whatever). And also the way she hid Amanda´s existence and Jonas Culver´s suicide (remember...?). He had a lot of nerve, and Miss Ellie also was extremely patient with him, and that´s what made their love story exemplary at the time. They were completely dysfunctional (well, so you all and I are too, aren´t we? (At least moi and Da Pig) and there a lot of layers in their personalities and backstory. And about this:

    "The will showed the kind of man that Jock really was though: an old-school manipulative pseudo-tyrant with no parenting skills...Poor, poor Ellie..."

    No, it´s not a joke. Of course Jock wasn´t the extreme tyrant that Blake Carrington was (who I couldn´t look at the eyes in the first seasons, all hatred towards many things in his "poor life"), he was noble and loyal and generous, but he could also be the contrary if he had a good reason. And no, I don´t think he had good parenting skills, but I deeply respect your opinion if you think he was a perfect father. He turned his middle son into an alcoholic because he didn´t fit in the kind of man that he needed at Ewing Oil (I know what I´m talking about re this issue, believe me), he pushed his youngest son to leave them and move out to California, and remember that he also refused to help Donna to convince Ray about coming back to him.

    And many other little scenes: the "Stewart woman" comment, his remarks about Pam wanting to work, spoiling rot Lucy and make her a Barbie doll with zero instinct for choosing men...Of course, he WASN´T guilty for all that, but IMO he WAS responsible partly for all that, as well as Miss Ellie. This is why I love "Dallas" so much: during the first 8 seasons they fed us with caviar and then on, they only gave us badly-cooked junk food. I hope you know what I mean...And I loved Jock despite all and especially loved how Jim Davis DIDN´T play him: he was just there, and he was one of the pillars of the show acting-wise. He opened his voice and you knew who the boss was.

    upload_2019-9-15_11-21-55.jpeg

    "Yes Takapa here. Get me a bourbon boy!"​
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019 at 10:23 AM
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  9. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    Nicely written post, Toni.

    I never thought that parenting was Jock's or Ellie's strong suit. They were better at everything else they did than parenting. I suppose in a soap opera of you end up with 3 very well adjusted, sons of high self-esteem, you're not going to get the same kid of conflict. There could still be conflict of course, but maybe not the kind of conflict they wanted. regarding "the caviar they fed us" in the first 8 seasons, it's hard to argue with success. I'm glad that Dallas did things the way they did, and if that means Jock and Elie had to be portrayed as not very good parents, so be it. It served the purpose of the overall story told.

    I do want to address the idea that Jock turned Gary into an alcoholic. here in the States, it's been increasingly the commonly held view that alcoholism is a disease, and nobody can give you that disease. Look at all the people who grew up in circumstances so bad they would have prayed to grow up in the Ewing household and who are not alcoholics.

    While I don't think Ellie and Jock were good parents, primarily because each had a favorite, which is terribly destructive, in general, I like the old-school style of parenting. What has been the result of the new-school style parenting? We have tremendously high divorce rates. We have had since the mid 90s, for the first time in the history of our country, mass shootings in schools. In earlier times, when America was a much wilder, less urban place, every home, or almost every home had a gun or guns in it.. Yet there were no cases of children coming to school with their parents' guns and shooting their schoolmates. Since guns have always been ubiquitous in America, what is the difference that has caused this terrible thing? I think the type of parenting is the difference.

    Heroin and narcotic use in general is at an all time high. The millennial generation lives with their parents longer than any other generation of the last 100 years, while the generations of old-school parents eagerly looked forward to becoming adults and moving out on their own. The products of new school parenting fear it. I could go on, but I think you get my point. Sometimes the traditional ways are the best ways, which is why they became tradition - they worked.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019 at 11:54 AM
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  10. Jimmy Todd

    Jimmy Todd Soap Chat Fan

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    Ok, do I'm going to throw my two cents in on that and say I agree. I don't see any evidence that repealing the 2nd amendment will get to the root of the problem. Cities where there are very strict gun laws have A LOT of problems with gun crimes. Also, back to your point, guns were available in the past and there was not this phenomenon of mass shootings. I have a friend who was a principal of a school in a very rural area. Many of the boys went hunting after school so they brought their rifles to school in the morning. The principal had them leave them in a room and just pick them up on their way out. Never had a problem and never worried any boy would start shooting anyone. There's definitely something else going. I'm not saying there shouldn't be some regulations, but we need to address the root of the problem.
     
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