Colbys - aEpilogue

Discussion in 'The Colbys' started by AndyLaird, Jun 18, 2017.

  1. Zable

    Zable Soap Chat Addict

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    :clap:for your efforts. It’s nice to see one happily-ever-after couple on the list …but with Zach-Zack dead, I suspect there’ll be squabbles over his will because of competing claims. Bliss could find herself caught up in feuds with known and unknown players. And if she does, that'll bring (pistol-packing) mama Colby running, tot in tow. :D

    Zach’s wife…. I didn’t know Dynasty Zach had a wife. :confuse: To whom are you referring?
     
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  2. Matthew Blaisdel

    Matthew Blaisdel Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    I think he's referring to Spiros mother. Spiro hinted several times at the mysterious circumstances of her death in a boat accident and accused Zach of it. Wasn't Caress framed and arrested for that in Venezuela? Zach mentioned something like that to Alexis in one of his crossovers to Dynasty, and it seemed Alexis was heavily involved in all that too.
    Caress had been in prison for 5 years, so that boat "accident" must have happened around the time of Dynasty Season 1 ... right before Alexis appeared back in Denver to testify against Blake ... i bet she had some former-Koralis-money on her bank account as well then ... oh, what a juicy story! :D
    To me it seemed Zach inherited most of his fortune from Mrs. Koralis, as it was said that Powers shipping was named Koralis shipping before...
    They sadly dropped that whole topic completly in season 2 and Spiro just disappeared without further notice. I wish they hadn't done that, because it would have given Zachs backstory much more depth.
    Maybe they had to, because Dame Collins hated TC and refused to be involved in it :re: and for some reason it couldn't be done satisfactorily without Alexis appearing.
    Damn, that would have been the perfect opportunity for Caress to crossover to TC as well and all that would have made S2 much better. Always felt it lacked another big storyline, it had just too much Fallon, Jeff, Miles and that f*cking baby and viewers were too bored by that! Somehow i'm sure Huson and Bast had something like that in mind and had to drop it last minute because of Collins - which might have ultimately led to cancellation in the end. Congratz Joanie, your wishes came true! :mad:
    [​IMG]:huh:
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
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  3. Alexis

    Alexis Soap Chat Warrior

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    Oh I remember on the old forum trying to piece together a timeline or trail of sorts about all the stuff mentioned about Zach's wife and the murder and Caress and all of that and it was just a frustrating mess that didn't really make sense. I think in the end we all just collaborated on almost a fanfic of the events.
     
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  4. Matthew Blaisdel

    Matthew Blaisdel Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    So what did i get wrong above? To me it MADE sense! :D
     
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  5. Alexis

    Alexis Soap Chat Warrior

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    No it makes sense, although I think we all may have embellished the story a lot more and planned out exactly what happened and how it happened.
     
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  6. Zable

    Zable Soap Chat Addict

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    Oh? Then, there’s a wee hiccup lads. :D TC Zack had 2 wives: #1 was Greek, and #2 (Spiro’s mum) was not Greek, but her late husband was.

    I felt that the source of the fortunes of both Mrs Powers were clearly established on the series. I grant there’s wriggle room for a backstory about either one of the Mrs Powers being greedy enough to get involved in organized crime despite having a legitimate source for her fortune. Or, perhaps, been scared into getting involved? As you say, Matt, a juicy story – but not with Spiro’s mum.

    Before I get into that, let me say this first: Caress, IMO, was very good at innuendo and accusations, but did little to explain things. She’d accused Zach of framing her of murder to Blake but never said how or what she thought his motives were. ….Zach himself didn’t discuss Caress with Alexis. Only mentioned her when responding to Alexis’s bleating about Caress’s early release from goal to try and calm her down; and the only thing he said then was (that he thought) that Caress would return to England as there was nothing for her in the country (US). …Correct me if I got it wrong, but when Caress and Zach did meet, she never once accused him of framing her. Instead, she said something cryptic about him seeing the face of the woman (not wife) he killed. Go figure. She may have meant herself figuratively. ….Earlier she’d told someone that something dynamite had happened on Zach’s yacht, promised to reveal what & never did. :rolleyes:

    If we must cross-link across series, I’d connect Caress’s predicament with Mrs Powers #1, actually.

    I rule out Spiro’s mother simply because police weren’t seeking a murderer to begin with, and Caress was actually goaled for murder.

    Little is known about Mrs Powers #1, even whether she’s alive or dead. Only that she was a shipping heiress. (I’d imagined she’d a rich Pappy.) Backstory potential.

    She could cross-link well enough ….D.S6 drops the tid-bit that when Ben first drilled for oil, he got Zach to ship for him. Might Zach already have been married to her then, and his father-in-law gave him a leg up in shipping?

    Or might she have been that “wretchedly unhappy woman” – as Joseph described – who’d had “a terrible row” with Alexis on the yacht belonging to the unnamed woman’s unnamed Greek-tycoon husband. But then that tycoon wouldn’t have been Zach, because he wasn’t Greek. …But perhaps she’d been married before; and Zach-Zack could have been a guy who habitually made a beeline for women who were married/had been married and had connections to the shipping industry.

    [Btw, I loved that scene between Joseph and Alexis, where she’d said “tinker, tailor, household spy and perjurer”. What came next about the status of servants had hints of an early scene between Cicero the WWII spy and the Countess Anna, the widow of his former employer, as fictionalized on film. There he got a slap for being bold of speech; here Alexis cups Joseph’s face lightly and calls him “the impotent voyeur”. (The 6 degrees of separation factoid is that Ricardo Montalbán played both Cicero in the condensed TV version of the big screen movie & Zach-Zack Powers.) ] I digress…

    To link Caress to MrsP1 though, there must be some time-related caveats:

    - Caress spent 5+ years in goal, so MrsP1 should have been murdered a reasonable time just before then.

    - The time between her murder and Caress getting out of jail (the first time around) must be sufficient for Zack to:

    . have experienced widowerhood (to court & marry MrsP2);

    . (while she was alive), build up the business (Koralis Shipping) that had been left in her control by her late husband in trust for their son Spiro;

    . receive control of Koralis shipping via her will when she died;

    . played widower again while he went about changing the company’s name (to Powers Shipping) and buiding up the business more, before moving in on Sable. (It was only after that that he met Caress again.)

    This is doable.

    A pit-fall of cross-linking Dynasty and TC stories, however, is that TC covered a 3 year span in 2 seasons, with season 1 covering a larger timespan – so it’s unlikely the story of the 2 Mrs Powers + Sabella would fit neatly into equating to 5+ years of Caress’s life. Especially since a season doesn’t necessarily equate to 1 year on either series.


    Agree with all that!

    There was way too much screen time devoted to what turned out to be a preemie baby. Fallon was pregnant for ages, she should have had a way overdue baby instead. ….Was TC waiting for Dynasty to make and air that episode where Alexis visited Fallon and the newborn in LA?

    For what? Just to keep up the appearance of the cross-sharing of stories? Or to make clear to viewers that the action on both series was taking place in different worlds, alternate realities? ….Jeff in one, spending time with Alexis vs Jeff in the other, kept busy in between visiting Fallon in hospital (tracking down Hoyt, speaking to Monica about Zack, speaking to Channing about Fallon, being told to investigate Cash), with no Alexis in sight and without even a word said by anyone on TC that Alexis had visited.

    TC did plant seeds for several storylines to mature later. Perhaps done too understatedly that it didn’t seem so, methinks. Meanwhile, they banked on the baby story carrying the season while they laid the ground, but judged poorly about how compelling that was.
     
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  7. AndyLaird

    AndyLaird Soap Chat Active Member

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    Having Alexis and Caress both cross over and resolve the Zach story would have been brilliant.
     
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  8. Zable

    Zable Soap Chat Addict

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    Having JC and KO'M appear on TC would've been lovely, and I'm sure TC would have done a better job than Dynasty in writing for its guests.

    But there was nothing to be resolved concerning Zack on TC. The Caress-Zach-Alexis arc was a Dynasty story which was not acknowledged on TC. IMO, Dynasty itself didn't even have a coherent story going connecting the 3 characters.

    I think it's more proper to say TC and Dynasty had some stories in common, but these incorporated dissimilar details (to varying degrees) which altered the tale.

    None of the Dynasty stars who appeared on TC appeared because of a sharing of a story between series in the same timeframe in the same linear timeline with identical detail. Ditto for TC stars on Dynasty.

    [TC and Dynasty were treated as independent series. Everyone had to have a separate contract to appear on the other series. Ken Howard was the only one to have a 3-year contract for each series in place, drawing a separate weekly paycheque for each.]
     
  9. Zable

    Zable Soap Chat Addict

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    The Colbys series is a spin-off of Dynasty. I call it that because that’s what the late Bill Bast called it. But what is a spin-off? I doubt the term means exactly the same to all viewers.

    When I first watched the opening episode of TC, what struck me as odd was seeing Garrett with the Colby family when they returned from Denver. The last we’d seen of the Colby family (those of us who’d previously watched Dynasty) they’d been at a party at the Carrington home, where Blake announced he and Jason were partnering to build an oil pipeline. Now, didn’t Garret hang around for the next episode of Dynasty to see Dominique? The Colby family wasn’t around. I’d assumed they’d already returned home. Yet here was Garrett with them. So, they must have stayed on in Denver, I thought. Simply been out of sight. ….But when the family entered their house in LA, major domo Henderson Palmer asked if they’d had a pleasant trip. Sabella responded “pleasantly brief”. Huh, how brief is brief?

    Before entering the house, Jason had spoken to the Press. It struck me as odd that they’d already begun talks with the authorities about which port was to be the California terminal for the pipeline when, back in Denver, Jason hadn’t firmed up the deal with Blake until the very last second. There were enough oddities that episode to make me wonder whether this family was living the same reality as that other Colby family in Denver. ….Dynasty fans have laughed at the stupidity of Miles not recognising his dead cousin. ….By the time he made his entrance I was already wondering why Jason was still waiting to hear if Dr Boland had had a second opinion about his illness – when on Dynasty, Dr Boland had already told Jason he’d sought the opinion of 2-3 other top doctors and all had concurred: Jason was terminally ill. That Dr Boland had told Jason to get his affairs in order. That was what triggered Dynasty Jason’s desire to build the pipeline. It was his legacy project. Yet in TCS2, we find out what this series’ Jason had been planning for awhile to be his legacy project.

    It’s been more than 30 years since The Colbys series first aired, and many still claim that Dynasty set up the stories for the Colby family before giving them their own show. Then why do I have a long list of dissimilarities? Lazy writing? Shoddy research? Poor supervision?

    The showrunner of Dynasty Season 9 was Executive Supervising Producer David Paulsen. Many know of him from his many years at Dallas. …Seven years ago, Dallas Fanzine asked him about Knots Landing’s relationship to Dallas.

    Mr Paulsen’s quoted as saying: “One show had nothing to do with the other. Knots Landing was a spin-off in the most tenous (sic) of terms really, only in that the middle brother went to Knots Landing … So it was really tenous (sic) and the two shows, even though there was public mention it was the same family and so forth; we never paid any attention to that stuff. In the minds of many of the audience they connect, but we never did. We avoided that whenever possible.”

    In the minds of many of the audience they connect, but we never did.

    Think maybe that’s what the brass of Dynasty and The Colbys thought of their own shows too?
     
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  10. AndyLaird

    AndyLaird Soap Chat Active Member

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    Fair points, but I think TC and Dynasty are different to most spin-offs.

    Usually, a spin-off is just a cheap way to promote a new show by piggybacking off the success of an established show. Knots and Dallas fit that - Knots was conceived before Dallas, and making it about Gary Ewing was just a way for David Jacobs to get it made and for CBS to hope that some of the Dallas audience would watch it. The link was half-hearted at best, and dropped altogether after the "dream" debacle.

    Melrose Place and BH90210 is an even more obvious example - Grant Show was placed in 90210 only to launch the new series.

    However, The Colbys was clearly intended to be more than that - the "Dynasty 2" title and the same-brand opening credits alone show that. More importantly, the characters who crossed over permanently to launch it were two key players, Jeff and Fallon, not minor characters like Gary or guest stars like Grant Show was in 90210. Also there were more crossovers and the crossovers continued for most of the first season, not just the first few episodes.

    So I think the discrepancies you've identified are problems of execution, not indicators that the shows were not intended, at least in the first season of TC, to have an ongoing connection.
     
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  11. Zable

    Zable Soap Chat Addict

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    Interesting: my story dissimilarities are your discrepancies, which to your thinking translate to problems of execution rather than show choices made.

    For some weird reason the situation reminds me of Miles saying: “….I didn’t just marry one woman you know. My wife has many facets. Many faces.” Lol.

    What story discrepancies have you come across, Andy?
     
  12. AndyLaird

    AndyLaird Soap Chat Active Member

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    Not totally sure I follow the point you're making, all I'm saying is that although the two shows were separately managed by different show runners, the senior people in the company (Spelling, the Shapiros and Pollocks) did appear to view them as companion pieces in the same universe, so if there are any inconsistencies between them it probably wasn't intentional but a consequence of the difficulty of trying to run two linked shows with different teams on a demanding production schedule - especially if there were other distractions too eg the dispute between Spelling and the Shapiros (can't remember when that was).
     
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  13. Zable

    Zable Soap Chat Addict

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    IF there are any inconsistencies? Oh, wow. They exist, all right.

    I'm surprised at you, Andy. You respond like someone who hasn’t watched the The Colbys series in full. Just the Sable Colby clips online. Yet, you're wanting to write an epilogue.

    The way I see it, the ‘inconsistencies’ (dissimilarities) exist in a way that's intentional and deliberate, with the aim to have parallel stories going (ie, not cross-linked) rather than just the one single shared storyline.

    Eg: The oil shipping deal.... Blake is going to produce oil in the South China Sea (SCS) & Jason has the contract to ship out the oil from there. One plot point is that contractually, Blake bears oil storage costs. This oil shipping story is one reason for some of the special guest appearances on TC (although the guests are also involved in other happenings.)

    (Note: The actual building of the oil pipeline doesn't figure on TC. They start off with it completed or near completed. On Dynasty, the building of the oil pipeline does figure because it's a biz opportunity for Dex. I have no explanation for how oil is supposed to be flowing through 'broken' pipelines.)

    So how do Dynasty and The Colbys handle the oil shipping story?

    - On Dynasty S6, the government of China has given Jason the exclusive right to ship out the oil produced in its territorial waters of the SCS. So when Jason’s ships are banned from entering a US harbour, Blake finds himself saddled with storage costs. He starts to sell off his oil in a fire-sale. So, more money wasted for him. Zach approaches Blake to ask to be allowed to bring the oil into the harbour instead, since Jason can't do it. His request of Blake makes sense: since the oil is already out of China’s territorial waters, Jason’s exclusive rights to ship it the rest of the way no longer apply. But this Blake dislikes Zach so much, much more than he dislikes Jason, that he’d rather go on losing money on storage & fire-sales than allow Zach to take the oil off Jason’s hands and bring it into the harbour (to the terminal).

    - On TC, Jason doesn’t have the exclusive right to ship out the oil from the SCS and does his best to stop Zack from muscling in, as he sees it. But this Zack isn’t looking to go into the business alone. He proposes a partnership with Jason. Jason continues to rebuff him. It’s Blake who forces Jason into partnership with Zack. It happens because Blake has increased oil output & he knows Jason’s tankers can’t cope. Blake is unwilling to have to pay a single cent in storage. He tells Jason to cut a deal with Zack. (This is for bringing the oil out of the SCS.) Which Jason does. ....So both Jason & Zack are now shipping for Blake ….Then, when Jason’s tankers are banned from the harbour, it makes perfect sense that Zack offers to help his partner bring the oil into the harbour to the terminal. (Here, he never approaches Blake over this.) Jason, still sore at having Zack as his partner, refuses Zack’s offer, finds a way to get the oil to the terminal by land, and absorbs all the costs himself. (So Blake is not putting oil in storage, doesn’t incur extra costs, and doesn’t need to have fire-sales.)

    Dynasty and TC were not on the same page with the oil shipping story, that’s for sure.

    On another note.... TC's S1 stories happened in a different year than the dispute among the owners (Shapiros vs Spelling). In any case, I don't believe that the dispute would have had any bearing on how a production’s writing staff fleshed out the story outlines given to them. It didn't seem to interfere with TC getting new faces for S2.

    Besides, owners don’t do daily hands-on, do they?

    Between the owners and the writers, there's a whole raft of people on a range of levels, from ESP and supervising producers to series developers and a host of other production groups. You are transposing accountability for consistent writing/storytelling supervision to the wrong level, Andy.

    Another thing.... Why the need for dissimilar parallel stories if it's truly one and the same Dynasty universe? It's not like there's a 'veiled' situation that's being played out through the eyes of different people. Or, is it?

    Dynasty is not just a title. It’s a word. Might confusion over what 'Dynasty II' meant in TC’s official title (Dynasty II: The Colbys) be the reason TC dropped it after merely 4 episodes or so to become simply The Colbys?
     
  14. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

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    I always thought THE COLBYS should have been called EMPIRE -- but there had been a recent Patrick MacNee sitcom of the same title, and I hear there's a show on now with the same name.
     
  15. Zable

    Zable Soap Chat Addict

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    Oooh. And so the screaming starts.

    He: Half the evil in this world is caused by confusing the written word with reality.

    She: Or legend with fact.

    He: You heard about this legend, then in your imagination, these things happened.

    She: No. These things happen. Then I heard about the legend.
     
  16. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    I really loved the DYNASTY II in the title.
     
  17. Zable

    Zable Soap Chat Addict

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    ME: Hmm. So that we could endlessly bicker whether Dynasty I gave Dynasty II its Fallon, or whether Dynasty II gave Dynasty I its Fallon?


    Sable: We had some happy times here, Jason.

    Jason: Yeah, it was a while ago. And, a different woman.

    Sable: No. It’s the same woman. It’s the man who’s changed.
     
  18. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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  19. Zable

    Zable Soap Chat Addict

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    That’s part of a conversation from the British gothic horror film And Now The Screaming Starts (1973).

    "She" is Catherine, portrayed by Stephanie Beacham.

    Parts of Catherine's story find an echo on The Colbys in the stories of different people.

    The film has an epilogue, a voice-over:

    “… : for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…..”
     
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  20. GillesDenver

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    Zach said his first wife was greek, so it surely means he has a second wife.
    However, Spiro never specified if he was the son of Zach's first or second wife, nor that his father was greek, only that himself was half-greek (so it could be from his mother as well).
    It seems more logical that the greek shipping heiress, is also Spiro's mother.

    It's interesting to note that in the bible for season 1 Zach is greek himself (I guess it was changed when Ricardo Montalban was cast) and that Sable found out in the end that he was still married to Irena, his impotent first wife (replaced by his sister in the show - the mother of Sean McAllister).
     
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