Could Neurofibromatosis have killed OldPam and turned Cliff crazy?

Discussion in 'Dallas TNT' started by Snarky's Ghost, Nov 16, 2016.

  1. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

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    Could the condition be used to explain OldPam's cancer death, and said to have caused lesions in Cliff's brain which turned him psycho by the new series?

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    No, Pam wasn't a Barnes by blood. Her father was Hutch McKinney.
     
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  3. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

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    But we don't know that. It's just what Rebecca told Digger just before Digger killed Hutch.

    Rebecca could easily have lied and felt she had good reason to lie. Or maybe she didn't know which man was Pam's father.
     
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  4. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    You can't treat a show like Dallas as a documentary where you demand proof for the basis of everything that happens on the show. That was the storyline they went with, and no Rebecca had no good reason to lie. The only good reason to lie would have been if she wanted custody of Pam but she abandoned Pam entirely; she had no interest in having her children remain a part of her life until Pam had to practically force Rebecca to admit she was Pam's mother.

    Even when Rebecca finally decided to grow up and be a responsible parent, what good would it have done to lie to Pam then about who her father was. Pam wanted to have children and told Rebecca so before Pam found out she couldn't carry a baby to term. If Rebecca even thought there was any reasonable chance that Digger was Pam's father, it would have been unconscionable to not let her know Digger either was her father or might be her father considering he carried a disease which was fatal for about 50% of children born to a mother who carried the disease.
     
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  5. Angela Channing

    Angela Channing World Cup of Soaps Moderator

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    The likelihood is that neither Pam or Cliff had Nf because they displayed none of the symptoms.

    Assuming that Digger had the condition, his children would only have a 50% chance of inheriting the disease, and as Kenny said, Pam wasn't Digger's biological daughter, so that just leaves Cliff. Due to the familial history of Nf, he would have been monitored regularly for symptoms so it's inconceivable that he could have the condition but be unaware of it. I think it's pretty safe to say that he didn't inherit Nf.
     
  6. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

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    You seem to be making my point for me.

    You can't treat a show like Dallas as a documentary where you demand proof for the basis of everything that happens on the show. And there was plenty of potential reason for Rebecca to lie, including wanting Digger to leave her and Hutch alone, or simply Rebecca not being sure who the father was. Those are not far-fetched reasons for her to have lied. In fact, it's more far-fetched to suggest that they're not logical possibilities.

    The show itself says that they have it, just as CLiff or any child Cliff had would have it, technically. (Or Pam, before they knew about MCKinney). Just that Cliff wasn't symptomatic.

    There are cases of NF people becoming symptomatic later in life, although it's true that if they become symptomatic at all, it's usually in childhood.
     
  7. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    If you think I'm making the same point as you on this subject, you didn't pay attention to what I wrote. My point is diametrically opposed to yours.

    I'm curious, do you think Pam was stupid, or at least not very bright? I ask because if you really believe that I'm making the same point as you are, and that there were plenty of reasons for Rebecca to lie, even after she and Pam reconciled after Pam had a private detective find her, then apparently you believe the following point. Before Pam and Rebecca's reconciliation, Pam wished she could have a baby but was not willing to risk having a child that would have a 50% chance of dying in the first year of its life. After Digger told Pam he wasn't her biological father, Pam did want to have a baby. After Pam and Rebecca's reconciliation, Pam told her mer about how much she wanted to have a baby even though she didn't dare to in the past because she thought Digger was her father at that time. Now believing that Hutch was her father Pam wanted to have a baby more than anything in the world. So, since you believe we're making the same point, and since "there was plenty of potential reason for Rebecca to lie, including wanting Digger to leave her and Hutch alone, or simply Rebecca not being sure who the father was", Pam would have had to have been stupid to not try to find out if she was Cliff's full sister or just his half sister, especially since she was absolutely against having a baby when she believed in the threat of her passing on the NF disease to her child.

    Furthermore, especially if for some reason doctor's didn't have the ability to tell if Pam and Cliff had the same other and father, Pam would have been stupid to not have a serious discussion with her mother in which she could tell her mother that she wanted to have a baby but only if it was true that Digger was not her father. So now that Rebecca didn't have to worry about Digger leaving her and Hutch alone, Pam could ask her mother if she was sure that Digger was not Pam's father. After all, Rebecca no longer had any motivation to lie and if she were unsure who Pam's father was, she could say so.
     
  8. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

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    But that makes sense to you. All your posts make sense to you. But your logic isn't as universal as you tend to assume, including on this topic.
     
  9. Frank Underwood

    Frank Underwood Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    That's the explanation I supported when the show was still on the air. It would have been particularly preferable in Cliff's case than to have no explanation at all.

    Unfortunately, Cidre rarely took advantage of the show's history in any meaningful way.

    Exactly. There was no definitive proof that Hutch was Pam's father, so they had an out there. I prefer to believe she was a Barnes. Altering her paternity waters down the story IMO.
     
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  10. Presea

    Presea Soap Chat Addict

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    Even though though there was no actual proof of Pam being a biological Barnes, there also wasn't any proof that she wasn't. Rebecca has lied before, and lying about that would have been convenient for her, too. And when we saw Pam after her car crash, she did mention that she had a disease after Cliff left. But it was never specified what this mysterious illness was in the old Dallas. Plus, she looked absolutely nothing like the ugly as sin Hutch McKinney. As for Cliff, I would say that it was his accident that put him in a coma after overdosing that made him weird. The doctor told Rebecca that Cliff might not be the same after he woke up. And after that, Cliff did start to show an obsessive interest in oil companies and being number one. That, and the fact that he got a lot more stupid about things and became more of a comedy character. It was a lot different from how he had been before.
     
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  11. Angela Channing

    Angela Channing World Cup of Soaps Moderator

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    That can't be correct because Nf is an autosomal (non-sex chromosome) genetic condition which means if one parent has it, then their children only have a 50% chance of getting it. I thought it was never established that either Cliff or Pam had the condition (before we knew about Hutch McKinney), they just feared they may be carriers because Digger had the diagnosis. Back in the 1970 there was no DNA testing so they couldn't have said Cliff had Nf unless he have had symptoms, which he didn't.

    It's a nice theory about Pam's cancer and it is fiction so they don't have to be true to the facts of condition but I think it would be stretching the truth a bit too much.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2016
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  12. Alexis

    Alexis Soap Chat Warrior

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    Wasn't the Dallas version of Neurofibromatosis different from the real life disease though? I mean weren't they different symptomatically? I thought the Dallas version was supposed to be some made up condition and then it turned out there actually was an illness by that name?
    Though it's a long while since I watched it and read about it.
     
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  13. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

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    Yes, didn't the doctor say to Pam when she took John Ross to be seen, "Oh, he has it..." ?

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Mustard

    Mustard Soap Chat Fan

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    It was a terrible decision to change Pam's biological father. The biggest mistake of pre-1984 Dallas by some distance. It doesn't ruin the Romeo and Juliet aspect of Bobby and Pam, but it does slightly water it down, and for no benefit.
     
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  15. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    Like Moldavia.
     
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  16. Presea

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    I agree. I don't see why they Pam to have a different biological father in order for her to find out the truth about Rebecca being alive. They could have wrote it differently. The only possible explanation I have been able to come up for the Hutch McKinney thing was that maybe it was so that Pam could have a baby without having to worry the complications of neurofibromatosis. I don't know if perhaps the writers were hoping for something like that if Victoria Principal stayed.
     
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  17. KayLloyd

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    In an attempt to add unnecessary extra tension to the "Baby John" paternity storyline, they foolishly boxed themselves in with creating a genetic disease that the Barnes family carried, and they had to get themselves out of it by creating the back story of McKinney actually being Pam's biological father. Having gone through the trouble to do that, it made no sense that they then split Pam and Bobby up instead of allowing them to have a biological child.
     
  18. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    This is correct. When Dallas introduced the condition it was a made up version. For years I thought it wasn't real and then when it started to appear in real life I thought...hang on a minute!!!!
     
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  19. Ms Southworth

    Ms Southworth Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    Neurofibromatosis is not made up by the people behind Dallas. It is the condition that "The Elephant Man" had! He lived in England in the late 1800's. I saw a black and white movie about his life many years ago.

    I found a description of the history of Neurofibromatosis on-line:

    History/Discovery of NF1 (2) In 1882, Dr. Fredrick von Recklinghausen made the first description of NF1. He published two case reports called " On Multiple Neurofibromas of the Skin and their Relationship to Multiple Neuromas." He correctly identified the pathology of the cutaneous and subcutaneous tumors and conjured up the term "neurofibroma." From this time, the condition was called von Recklinghausen's Disease. (1) It wasn't until 1900 that Thompson discovered the genetic nature of the disorder, demonstrating that the disease was familial in 30/77 reported cases. In 1918, Preiser and Davenport proposed the disease was caused by autosomal dominant inheritance. (3) From the end of the 19th century, a lot of case reports of NF1 appeared in medical literature. The first large, and reasonably accurate surveys of the disease appeared in the 1950's. These studies; however, failed to distinguish between the different forms of Neurofibromatosis. Interest in NF1 was sparked through John Hurt's portrayal of Joseph Merrick in the film "The Elephant Man". (4) Joseph Merrick was a severely disfigured man who lived during the 1800's. People were morbidly fascinated by his grotesque looks . In 1971, based on medical knowledge available to him at the time, Ashley Montagu suggested a connection with NF1 in his book , The Elephant Man. The impact this book had on families with NF1 was immense. Later, it was figured that the disease Merrick had was actually " Proteus Syndrome", which is very similar to NF1. picture Girl with Proteus Syndrome (5) Confusion of the two diseases still exist. Detailed research into this disease has increased in the past 15 years. In 1987, the diagnostics for NF1 & NF2 were proposed, enabling better differentiation between the two of them. IN 1990, the NF1 gene was cloned and its gene product, neurofibromin, was discovered.
     
  20. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    I have an article from the early 1980's stating that Neurofibromatosis was a made up disease. I'll try to find it - have it in my collection somewhere. I'm not disputing it's real but it was definitely put out there in the press at the time that it was fictitious.
     

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