1. Check Out Our Musical Secret Santa

    Coming to Soap Chat this Christmas

    Click here for more details

    Dismiss Notice

Did the COLBYS hurt DYNASTY in S6?

Discussion in 'Dynasty' started by Michael Torrance, Jul 31, 2018.

  1. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Addict

    Message Count:
    1,071
    Trophy Points:
    690
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alexis' studio
    Ratings:
    +1,717
    Gender:
    Male
    Member Since:
    2017 I think (unless it is 2016)
    Note: this post may be hazardous to THE COLBYS fans' health.

    Joan Collins (together with a lot of the press) were quick to blame THE COLBYS for DYNASTY's decline, and some of the arguments were that "people got confused," "twice a week was too much" and "it diverted talent attention from the main show."
    The last one is particularly silly--were there a strong team at the helm of DYNASTY at the time, with better storylines than Moldavia and Rita, it would not matter what was happening elsewhere. But in fact because there were lousy plots, THE COLBYS hurt DYNASTY in an indirect way: it exposed how the show did not have good plots.
    For example, I was sitting through "The Homecoming" the other day (thanks to "The Aftermath," the second more prosaic title of the season) and the episode was a snooze fest until the very end when fat Fallon and Miles came on screen. Even with fake Fallon and her accent, this was an exciting development compared to the rest of the episode that had as its height of exposition Alexis writing "King Galen" all over a notepad--sometimes I can't believe the things I am writing about that season.
    Then in "The Californians" and "The Man" we suddenly meet characters who are connected to the Colby Clan long after we thought Cecil and Jeff were the only ones, and you have Jason dying (we don't know yet what a bogus plot it is) and Connie deciding to shake things up because she thinks Miles is not ready. Again, while these are new and exciting, Moldavia and Rita feel drab and sedate. And then after these storylines are introduced in DYNASTY they are moved to another night, and we are left with the dregs (but the joke is on the audience, for the new show is full of dregs on its own and after sampling the first two episodes, the DYNASTY audience abandons it and the show tumbles in the ratings).
    Also of note: After Connie insists Miles is not mature to take over the business, Jeff comes in "The Man" and after a temper tantrum he tells Jason than initially he was going to sell him his shares, but since they had a fight on the spot, he will now upend his life and move to California. Connie, your instinct for maturity sure paid off.
    Now, once these storylines departed, the show dropped out of the top 10. But these storylines were never meant to take place in DYNASTY, even though the way the new show was born was indeed somewhat confusing (down to the initial title of DYNASTY II). But DYNASTY recovered in 6B, so the Colbys as a show did not hurt DYNASTY or else DYNASTY would not have turned itself around when the plots improved. But ironically the new plots the Colbys characters introduced exposed the weakness of the threads the brass had planned for the season for the Carringtons.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

    Message Count:
    4,394
    Trophy Points:
    5,636
    Location:
    Haunting that cozy cellar under Falcon Crest
    Ratings:
    +5,738
    Member Since:
    September 2000
    To me, the seeds for DYNASTY's downfall were sewn as early as Season 3, so Season 6 (and 7 & 8) was just a natural deterioration.

    The problem was that the Pollocks were not ignoring DYNASTY. (The gun-to-temple resurgence of S6-B was okay but not enough and short-lived).

    If only Huson and Bast had been brought in to run DYNASTY during and after THE COLBYS. Or they'd given Paulsen the autonomy he'd asked for in order to join Season 6.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
  3. ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989

    ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989 Soap Chat Addict

    Message Count:
    1,028
    Trophy Points:
    892
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +1,588
    Member Since:
    22nd June 2010
    With or without THE COLBY'S, the rot on DYNASTY was showing up more obviously by late '85/early '86.

    I may be extreme in saying this but I would even go as far as to say that The Colby's bought Dynasty some time before the inevitable chop came for it, The Colby's main trouble is basically down to two flaws:

    1: It began far too late into Dynasty's run, in truth any spinoff should have began in early 1983, when the parent show was still very much hot and fresh, by late 1985, post Moldavian mess up no less, was pi$$ poor timing.

    2: Too much of a Dynasty copycat, unlike when KNOTS span off from DALLAS, The Colby's more or less had carbon copy characters, storylines and set up, Miles was the equivalent to Adam, Jason was season 1 era Blake, Monica was season 1 Fallon, Bliss was Amanda
    Zach Powers was Cecil Colby heck even Emma Samms' Fallon was more like Kirby than the real Fallon!
    KNOTS, although was a spinoff from DALLAS, it was more or less a completely different show, before and after the dream season, the only thing linking the two shows were Gary and Val, neither of which were actual main players on DALLAS to begin with, the Ewings on this show were just one of several families in a suburban cul de sac.
    Jeff was far too ingrained with Dynasty by season 6, for any spinoff involving him for it to work, the premise itself was related to an earlier Dynasty storyline involving Fallon's disappearance.

    And that was the trouble, THE COLBY'S was like a second Dynasty, with no real identity.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Addict

    Message Count:
    1,071
    Trophy Points:
    690
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alexis' studio
    Ratings:
    +1,717
    Gender:
    Male
    Member Since:
    2017 I think (unless it is 2016)
    Well, of course nobody can prevent us from making claims. Like, I can claim that THE COLBYS brought the downfall of communism. ;)
    But ratings-wise, DYNASTY suffered once the Colby storylines and Jeff and Fallon moved to THE COLBYS--because the remaining storylines were duds. It only recovered in 6B, when they fixed the plots. So no, it did anything but buy DYNASTY time--if anything it saturated the TV landscape with too much of the same thing, as you yourself state.

    Season 3 was not as polished as season 2 (though season 2 itself was not as polished as season 1), but I wish the following seasons were like season 3 in plot coherence. By mid-season 4, the show was already completely derailed.

    I believe some of the strong elements of THE COLBYS you and others attribute to Huson and Bash are not plot (because THE COLBYS, especially in season 1, were ghastly there) but things like direction, camera work, and of course the attention to ambiance. To give credit where it's due, THE COLBYS looked like a show about rich people, artwork included, which sadly DYNASTY was starting to look less like in season 6 and 7. So yes, DYNASTY needed people with vision in charge, and that vision had to be other than dollar signs. It's not incidental that in DYNASTY videos we have all these merchandising commercials associated with the show--that was what had become its essence.

    Yeah, timing was awful, but that was because nobody minded the DYNASTY store. You are right that it was exactly the same type of soap (the super rich) unlike DALLAS/KNOTS, though there were some differences in details. Miles I would say was a different character from Adam, who was multiple personalities, and one of them a sociopath. Miles was a coherent character, sadly played lousy by the amazingly hot Caulfield. Monica was nothing like Fallon (though the actress would have been a better choice for Fallon than Samms) because Fallon had story in season 1 and Monica was simply lecturing her father on feminism.
    But then there were the wonderful adventures of Bliss, the geriatric romance of Connie and Hutch, and the angelic :eck:Frankie with the superb acting by Ross. Weird that the show quickly sunk to the 40s and 50s in ratings rankings and did not break into the top 20 until two characters transplanted from DYNASTY, Fallon and Jeff, were married. So I think the plots they had conceived for the show were overall lackluster, and despite the timeslot it would do somewhat better (like #25 instead of #35) if there were better and generated interest--as it happened with "The Wedding" when the DYNASTY audience checked in to see what was happening. Otherwise DYNASTY fans thought that this second helping of the show was nothing worth having, especially since the parent show itself was problematic.

    Yet as I've said before, the execs focused on big budget and lavish settings and hiring big names, but together with ignoring plots they also did not try to get a better time slot for a new show which is always required (the DALLAS miniseries was at #44, not an instant ratings hit as its fans love to mistakenly claim). Even DYNASTY did not simply get a new villain in Alexis/Joan Collins: they also got a move from Mondays to Wednesdays. The show actually did a lot better plot-wise in season 2 but then in addition to the competition CBS also tried to kill the show by moving KNOTS LANDING against it. Why didn't ABC move the show to Tuesdays at 10 p.m., after Moonlighting? I guess only the wise men of network programming know.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

    Message Count:
    4,394
    Trophy Points:
    5,636
    Location:
    Haunting that cozy cellar under Falcon Crest
    Ratings:
    +5,738
    Member Since:
    September 2000
    I'm not sure I'd agree that S2 was less polished than S1 --- they had different tones, to be sure, but S2 had more structure than its giddy surface would reveal.

    Season 3 may have been a wee bit more coherent plot-wise than Season 4, but the little details of logic and increasingly self-consciousness nervousness of Season 3 made the derailing by mid-S4 extremely easy to predict.

    I was wowed by the executional polish of the first episodes of Season 4, because I thought they'd fixed the problems I'd seen throughout Season 3, but it wasn't to last.

    Overall, perhaps, but the final episode or so of the DALLAS miniseries cracked the weekly Top 10, which is the only reason it was greenlighted as a regular series.
     
  6. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Addict

    Message Count:
    1,071
    Trophy Points:
    690
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alexis' studio
    Ratings:
    +1,717
    Gender:
    Male
    Member Since:
    2017 I think (unless it is 2016)
    There was already character destruction in S2--Cecil as Blofeld, straight NASCAR Steven, Fallon just looking to latch on to Nick, and Nick himself who starts out as a revenge driven doctor, switches to romancing Krystle, and then becomes again a menace. While there is an overall coherent narrative with Alexis, other threads are not as tightly crafted as S1, where other than Lindsay the other characters all looked to be inevitably moving to the same end game.

    You are right about the last episode. But it still wasn't a top 10 show in its first full (now termed second) season. Somehow ABC expected--twice--that its soaps became instant megahits.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  7. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

    Message Count:
    4,394
    Trophy Points:
    5,636
    Location:
    Haunting that cozy cellar under Falcon Crest
    Ratings:
    +5,738
    Member Since:
    September 2000
    Sure, there's a lot of pointless soapy dust in Season 2, but it mostly works because of oh-so-confident execution. The problem with Season 3, with the addition of the Static Acting Directive (and perhaps the removal of line producer Ed Ledding) it's now all so nervous and quaky that no contrivance can get passed the viewer so it feels less tight and convincing even if the scripting isn't really all that much worse yet.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Gabriel Maxwell

    Gabriel Maxwell Soap Chat Well-Known Member

    Message Count:
    885
    Trophy Points:
    1,186
    Location:
    Breezy fragrant vineyards of Falcon Crest
    Ratings:
    +1,666
    Gender:
    Male
    Member Since:
    July 13, 2008
    Sadly, Joan Collins can not be relied upon to accurately assess the effect of THE COLBYS on DYNASTY (if any). Not only had she had an axe to grind (a spin-off taking away spotlight from her golden goose that she's been the star of? no way!), but her account of what happened is selective & faulty or debatable at best.

    In her book 'Passion for Life' she claims:

    - Linda Evans also 'trekked over' to do a guest stint on THE COLBYS,
    - ABC gave DYNASTY's Wednesday at 9 timeslot to THE COLBYS,
    - THE COLBYS was a "pale imitation" and "not very good"
    - the "massive confusion" caused DYNASTY's ratings to plummet
    - the resulting decline caused outlandish storylines like "terrorist massacres in Crimean countries"
    - most of the original cast incl. Heather Locklear had quit the show by season 9 (except Forsythe, James and Nader)
    - she was reduced to 13 episodes in season 9 (unlike John Forsythe who got to do all 22) because she is a woman
    - the final episode of the weekly series was "ludicrous."
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  9. Majorfanofshow

    Majorfanofshow Soap Chat Member

    Message Count:
    94
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Location:
    Ny
    Ratings:
    +57
    When I was watching dynasty season 6 but not the colbys as soapnet didn’t air it they would talk about things that happened on the Colbys. it didn’t really bother me that I missed some of the story because the dialogue covered it but I am sure some were bothered!! What if you loved Dominique? You knew some of Dominique’s story had been on the Colby’s and not dynasty. You also have some people who just don’t like having obvious gaps in story. That’s a feeling that exists in dynasty season 6.
     
  10. Matthew Blaisdel

    Matthew Blaisdel Soap Chat TV Fanatic

    Message Count:
    1,460
    Trophy Points:
    2,396
    Location:
    past orbit, on the way out of the solar system
    Ratings:
    +2,485
    Member Since:
    sometime 2005 (i guess)
    Wow, that's interesting. I really didn't know that! And all of that because of those damned COLBYS! Thank you so much for clearing that up, Miss Collins!

    :re:
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
    • Funny Funny x 5
  11. Alexis Colby Carrington

    Alexis Colby Carrington Soap Chat Member

    Message Count:
    76
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Ratings:
    +85
    Gender:
    Male
    Having watched Season 6 twice now and not having watched Dynasty over and over again to quote storylines inside and out, I always thought Season 6 was a pretty good season. There's no way the powers that be were going to kill off Blake, Alexis or Krystle after Moldavia - they're core cast - the cliffhanger from season 5 made everyone come back to the show in much the same way they did in Dallas after JR was shot. However, they could have possibly killed off notable secondary cast - one of the Carrington children - season 6 could have explored Blake and Alexis' grief, with Blake and Alexis becoming closer to the point where they could possibly reunite - this all being a ploy by Alexis so that we still have the Season 6 cliffhanger - which I thought was brilliant - but got there in a different way.

    I also don't find the Krystle/Rita storyline too unbelievable - maybe without Rita, we could Krystle descend into insanity through the discovery of an affair with Alexis, so that we don't get Rita, but we have all of the traits she carries within Krystle, so that she's almost two people - bipolar if you like. I don't know, just a thought.

    The Colbys came along when Dynasty was the number one show at the time, they knew what they were doing introducing them at this point in Dynasty timeline, they had a good thing so thought they'd spin it off - The Colbys from what I remember was a good show, but it was mainly carried by the acting of Stephanie Beacham, the fact that it only lasted two seasons and they transferred some of the characters to Dynasty, which continued for a few seasons after The Colbys ended, shows how weak the Colbys was and how good only certain characters were - lets bring Sable into Dynasty because she was good in The Colbys - it was probably seen to be a good idea to lift declining ratings. M

    Maybe if the The Colbys had never happened and the characters simply featured in Dynasty with their storylines in season 6 would have helped the show even more.

    As a general comment, I'm always amazed that the prime time soaps were as highly rated as they were - they were all on in the 80s and watched by huge audiences, can you imagine if these forums existed then and we were commenting on the stories week by week?

    When you think of far fetched storylines - as a viewer in the UK - you have whole places in the prime time soaps - Dallas, Denver, Los Angeles, the Falcon Crest setting - here now in the UK we have a 'Street' and a 'Square' and far more happens in both of those places - murders/ serial killers/ tram crashes/ pub explosions and these things hardly ever happen in real places in the UK but they do happen because the writers dream up plots to hold viewers and they're on 4 or 5 episodes a week - the prime time american soaps were once a week so if you were to compare the far fetched factor - I think our UK soaps trump those american prime time ones by far.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Addict

    Message Count:
    1,071
    Trophy Points:
    690
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alexis' studio
    Ratings:
    +1,717
    Gender:
    Male
    Member Since:
    2017 I think (unless it is 2016)
    Expanding the DYNASTY universe with the Colbys family was necessary after the show stupidly eliminated any serious antagonist after killing Cecil. Alexis was no antagonist if all it would take for her to stop her vendetta would be for Blake to bed her again.
    I think by S6 the writers/execs did not have enough good ideas for one show, much less for two. Plot-wise both early seasons of DYNASTY and THE COLBYS were abysmal, but some central COLBYS stories had more potential, yet they were drowned by a lot of sub-par material around them. DYNASTY 6A was all dreg. Yet the brass put their heads together and turned around DYNASTY for 6B, but--even based on the news clippings at the time--they decided to let THE COLBYS ride as it was.
    If some of the good characters and stories of THE COLBYS had appeared on DYNASTY seasons 6 and 7, the show would have made a comeback not just briefly as it did in 6B. When Sable and Monica came on season 9, the show was already no longer on people's radars.
     
  13. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson drilling for soap

    Message Count:
    8,189
    Trophy Points:
    8,250
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    somewherie on the prairie
    Ratings:
    +15,433
    Member Since:
    April 2002
    Do you think the Colbys would have been treated better on the parent show?

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Addict

    Message Count:
    1,071
    Trophy Points:
    690
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alexis' studio
    Ratings:
    +1,717
    Gender:
    Male
    Member Since:
    2017 I think (unless it is 2016)
    Well, the parent show had a lot of problems at the time, but it did have a cushier time slot. I think there were about 3 sets of characters/threads that could be woven into DYNASTY: Miles/Fallon/Jeff, obviously, Sable/Jason/Frankie (much as I hate her) and Monica's secret with Connie involved. Zach Powers would not have been needed (and was never that effective) if Jason and Blake and Alexis butted heads, and Connie would have no need for her geriatric romance, to name a couple of the riff raff stories.

    But I never understood the thinking of ABC or the DYNASTY team in creating the new show. Supposedly they wanted to create another hit show so they spend all this money on big names of the past and sets and what not and then they give it a terrible time slot, and they also in theory create a spin-off except the only two characters we already know from the parent show are unrecognizable: Jeff and Fallon are now destined to be, Fallon is an obedient hausfrau, and everything Jeff knew about his past was wrong. So in that sense, I think if some of that money and some of these ideas and team had infused the parent show, both the Colby clan and the Carringtons would have fared better.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Grant Jennings

    Grant Jennings Soap Chat Active Member

    Message Count:
    198
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Location:
    The bottom of an icy man-made lake
    Ratings:
    +382
    Member Since:
    2017
    The problem was the producers' mindset: they didn't really consider "The Colbys" (originally "Dynasty II: The Colbys") to be a spin-off as much as expanding "Dynasty" to two nights a week, similar to "Peyton Place" airing two or three nights a week. They knew producing two episodes a week of the same series would be problematic so they produced a carbon copy with similar characters, similar plots and the same opening titles - down to the font used and the trill that began both shows' themes. In addition to Dominique, the producers originally intended to have other characters like Sammy Jo and Ashley cross-over between the two series.

    If they really tried to pull-off two weekly episodes of "Dynasty" they may have been able to do it if they planned it very carefully (and we all know what excellent planners they were) and had excellent, well-plotted scripts (which they definitely didn't have at the time). Imagine what could have happened if Caress, Ben and other characters were given more screen time and their plots were more fully developed. Season six of "Dynasty" was 31 episodes long with Forsythe and Evans appearing in every one (Collins appeared in 30 because of contract negotiations at the start of the season). A typical prime time series airs 22 episodes per season. It could have been cost effective if they produced 44 episodes of twice weekly "Dynasty" with Forsythe, Evans and Collins each appearing in about 30 episodes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson drilling for soap

    Message Count:
    8,189
    Trophy Points:
    8,250
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    somewherie on the prairie
    Ratings:
    +15,433
    Member Since:
    April 2002
    That's why I posted that image.
    Dynasty did not need the good bits of The Colbys because they already had the good stuff, Kate O'Mara in particular.
    Considering how they treated her character - not awful, but she wasn't used to her full potential - I am hesitant to believe that the Colbys (and Stephanie Beacham in particular) would have had the opportunity to shine the way they did in their own show.
     
  17. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

    Message Count:
    4,394
    Trophy Points:
    5,636
    Location:
    Haunting that cozy cellar under Falcon Crest
    Ratings:
    +5,738
    Member Since:
    September 2000
    I've always wanted the Colbys on DYNASTY for the first half of Season 6 before spinning off.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Addict

    Message Count:
    1,071
    Trophy Points:
    690
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alexis' studio
    Ratings:
    +1,717
    Gender:
    Male
    Member Since:
    2017 I think (unless it is 2016)
    But Ben and Caress came for 6B, after the departure of the Colbys past the 6th episode left the show feel amputated. And let's not forget another actress demanded that O'Mara's role was reduced or cut. Ironically, both got the boot by the end of season 7.

    Well, if you are a COLBYS fan, I understand why you'd rather they be big fish in the small ratings pond that was the spin-off show

    They were on for a couple of episodes on DYNASTY, took all the screen time when they did, and then left, but the audience did not follow.
    Instead of airing DYNASTY II late November, I would have started THE COLBYS early on in the DYNASTY timeslot, with the show taking place two months before Moldavia time-wise. I would also have made sure to have stronger plots than "Jason is dying, no he isn't, but oops, I gave half my shares to an unknown relative nonetheless." I also would not have made Fallon unrecognizable, both as face and character. So we have met them for two and a half months in DYNASTY's more protected timeslot, and so people got to know these characters and maybe some viewers would have followed them to the new time. And of course I would not have had 31 episodes if half of them were full of Galen and Joel with Rita.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  19. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

    Message Count:
    4,394
    Trophy Points:
    5,636
    Location:
    Haunting that cozy cellar under Falcon Crest
    Ratings:
    +5,738
    Member Since:
    September 2000
    I've also often said if well-edited, Season 6 could have been a bang-up year … at 22 episodes.

    Or they could just write it all better... :lol:
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson drilling for soap

    Message Count:
    8,189
    Trophy Points:
    8,250
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    somewherie on the prairie
    Ratings:
    +15,433
    Member Since:
    April 2002
    Erm...they had been watching Jeff Colby for 5 years. They were supposed to follow him, that's how it works with spin-offs.
     

Share This Page