If the Shapiros had had their way...

Discussion in 'Dynasty' started by AndyLaird, Feb 26, 2018.

  1. AndyLaird

    AndyLaird Soap Chat Active Member

    Message Count:
    100
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +169
    There are a lot of season 1 fans on here, which was the year Dynasty was closest to the Shapiros' original vision.

    They were interested in the rivalry between the Carringtons and the middle class Blaisdels, and in critiquing power and wealth as much as, or more than, celebrating it.

    So what would it have been like if the first season had been a roaring success and the Spelling/Pollocks retooling not taken place? I think we can make a few guesses:
    - Alexis would have just done the six-episode arc that was originally planned for the character. Without Alexis as the female villain, Fallon wouldn't have turned nice.
    - Matthew would have stayed in it and we would have been encouraged to cheer him on to beat Blake in business, and maybe even win Krystle back. What effect would that have on him? Would he have become as ruthless as Blake?
    - Blake would have stayed flawed.

    Any other thoughts? What future storylines might the show have gone for on this model? And could they have kept it going?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Soapwriter12

    Soapwriter12 Soap Chat Fan

    Message Count:
    351
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Ratings:
    +279
    Cecil would not have died, but we're seeing a lot of the oriinal vision in NuDynasty, Esther has more influence over the new one, then she did over the original.
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
  3. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

    Message Count:
    4,202
    Trophy Points:
    5,636
    Location:
    Haunting that cozy cellar under Falcon Crest
    Ratings:
    +5,484
    Member Since:
    September 2000
    Balderdash.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989

    ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989 Soap Chat Addict

    Message Count:
    983
    Trophy Points:
    682
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +1,512
    Member Since:
    22nd June 2010
    I posted a similar thread a while back, while I.think Fallon would've remained bitchy, it would ultimately be Cecil who would've become the main series villain, sure Alexis would have shown up but would probably become a recurring character.

    Matthew would definitely have stayed on, along with Lindsey and Claudia, the Blaisdel's would have remained a family unit for longer.

    I get the impression that some of season two was what the Shapiro's had in mind too with the Pollock's speeding things up a little, but while Alexis was her most evil then by killing Krystle's unborn child, it was Cecil who was Blake's main rival.

    I always envisioned an alternate season 3 where Blake dies and leaves his fortune to Krystle, Fallon & Steven, also this paving the way for a reunion between Krystle and Matthew, and Cecil buying Stevens share of DenverCarrington giving him a foothold in the company with Alexis by his side as Krystle's (and to an extent Fallon's) rival while the remaining Carrington clan plus Matthew battle Cecil, Adam could still arrive and begin a relationship with Claudia.
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
  5. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Well-Known Member

    Message Count:
    820
    Trophy Points:
    480
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alexis' studio
    Ratings:
    +1,374
    Gender:
    Male
    Member Since:
    2017 I think (unless it is 2016)
    Some things were not in anyone's control. Bo Hopkins was going to leave DYNASTY for a movie career at the end of season one (which didn't take off until 1988, when he did "Death Street USA." Plot: Scientists poison the water supply of a small town, turning the residents into homicidal maniacs who kill each other and anybody who passes through). Audience research at the time showed that the Blake-Krystle-Matthew triangle was interesting, as was Claudia. What was not, was Walter and Lindsay. Had Bo Hopkins not left, maybe he would have instead aligned with Cecil Colby? BTW, Nick Toscanni was brought in as the new Matthew (whatevah).

    Alexis (who would have been Madeline, perish the thought) was indeed planned for six episodes and the Pollocks, in one of their best contributions to DYNASTY, insisted one can't bring a core character for a quickie. But even for six episodes, who knows what would have happened once Joan Collins showed up on screen?

    I think Fallon, Krystle, Steven, and Blake would have stayed on their original journey--that is, not static, but not with the dizzying 180 degree turns they made. Blake, for instance, had a two steps forward, one and a half steps back journey thus far. There were changes, just not seismic. And when Fallon was telling Krystle that "just this once she wished she could help her" regarding the emerald, it was genuine. And Steven got a job at Denver Carrington's refinery.

    I didn't get that impression from many interviews, especially back before Esther Shapiro got into 24/7/365 spin mode. Steven becoming straight (or bi) was the Pollocks, as was Sammy Jo and the ridiculous Logan Rhinewood plot. Alexis' back story (Roger Grimes) was the Shapiros, but her tricks were all Pollock--as was her whole move first to studio and then to Colbyco.

    BTW, not to play lawyer here, but Alexis frightened the horse Krystle was riding on--she did not kill the fetus as we summarily like to often state. Her psychopath persona did not emerge there for me, but in the following scene, when she goes to check on the result. When I saw her fire that gun, I thought (and still expect when I watch it) we would then see some remorse. Her next scene is just a glimpse into a dark abyss of a soul.

    Yeah, unfortunately I think John Forsythe was so loved by the production, they never would have done that no matter how many alternate universes we seek. I think such a death should have happened in season 4 or 5, right when the original "Alexis' Vendetta" arc the Pollocks rebuilt DYNASTY on had run its course.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat TV Fanatic

    Message Count:
    1,502
    Trophy Points:
    892
    Location:
    Newcastle, New South Wales, Australia
    Ratings:
    +2,601
    And what a shame the writers couldn't keep that persona up. THAT very scene had me hooked on Dynasty until it went into overdrive on campness. Like the rest of the world I was horrified that a woman could inflict such tragedy on another human being, especially a woman and pregnant. The writers deserve full marks for being so brave. What a shame this dark and menacing Alexis couldn't be maintained.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. TJames03

    TJames03 Soap Chat Well-Known Member

    Message Count:
    618
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Location:
    California
    Ratings:
    +370
    Alexis taking over the show is what was too much. By the time PSM left the show, Fallon had been rendered null long before.

    Steven's racing career was really stinky. Poor Al Corely. Steven was a multi-faceted character, but was undone by making him straight. It was like the show was screaming, "He's straight now, honest!!!"
     
  8. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Well-Known Member

    Message Count:
    820
    Trophy Points:
    480
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alexis' studio
    Ratings:
    +1,374
    Gender:
    Male
    Member Since:
    2017 I think (unless it is 2016)
    Not just straight, but also a lost Duke of Hazzard.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  9. Matthew Blaisdel

    Matthew Blaisdel Soap Chat TV Fanatic

    Message Count:
    1,378
    Trophy Points:
    2,396
    Location:
    past orbit, on the way out of the solar system
    Ratings:
    +2,348
    Member Since:
    sometime 2005 (i guess)
    I don't think so. They were on the edge ratings wise by the end of S1 and would have likely been canceled while or right after S2.
    And there would have been no nuDynasty today at all. If that is good or bad remains everyone's guess. :ms:
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018
  10. colbyco

    colbyco Soap Chat Active Member

    Message Count:
    107
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Location:
    Germany
    Ratings:
    +203
    - How do you know WHO created this or that?
     
  11. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Well-Known Member

    Message Count:
    820
    Trophy Points:
    480
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alexis' studio
    Ratings:
    +1,374
    Gender:
    Male
    Member Since:
    2017 I think (unless it is 2016)
    There have been many interviews about these. Some about Alexis and her backstory are also included in THE DYNASTY YEARS book (which is an academic one).
     
  12. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Well-Known Member

    Message Count:
    820
    Trophy Points:
    480
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alexis' studio
    Ratings:
    +1,374
    Gender:
    Male
    Member Since:
    2017 I think (unless it is 2016)
    Season 1 average: 28th place (19.0)/15,181,000 households with highest place #12 and lowest #50, though that was around episode 6 (if you count the pilot as 3 separate ones) and the last episode at #23 with the previous two at #32.
     
  13. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

    Message Count:
    4,202
    Trophy Points:
    5,636
    Location:
    Haunting that cozy cellar under Falcon Crest
    Ratings:
    +5,484
    Member Since:
    September 2000
    Yes, it's a myth that S1 bombed -- it did OK-too-goodish. But there wasn't much buzz surrounding the show (or enough "zip!" as Linda phrased it) and the ABC executives wanted it to be "their DALLAS" (which, of course, was the #1 show on the planet) so those network execs' lofty aspirations for DYNASTY resulted in an impatience that likely would have gotten the show cancelled had Spelling not had so much pull at ABC as their biggest contributor of programming.
     
  14. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson drilling for soap

    Message Count:
    7,685
    Trophy Points:
    8,250
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    somewherie on the prairie
    Ratings:
    +14,481
    Member Since:
    April 2002
    I find Walter and Lindsay colourful Denver characters.
    Yes, the Blaisdels could have gotten involved with Cecil, and that should worsen the situation instead of making it better.
    I don't know what the original plan for Madeleine/Alexis was. Was it only about the trial?
    Either way, Krystle needed a new challenge, a new enemy - and Alexis was the perfect candidate.

    I can imagine how Fallon would cause the miscarriage but she'd probably regret it. She was a snob and a pain in the ass, but she wasn't as evil as her mother simply because she had no reason to. She loved her father and brother, but somehow she lacked the focus to hate someone so intensely. She never missed an opportunity to make Krystle feel miserable but she didn't act like a prowler. It usually happened spontaneously.

    Nevertheless, if she had caused the miscarriage and then tried to keep it a secret, oh, that would have been very Peyton Place-esque!
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Well-Known Member

    Message Count:
    820
    Trophy Points:
    480
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alexis' studio
    Ratings:
    +1,374
    Gender:
    Male
    Member Since:
    2017 I think (unless it is 2016)
    Esther Shapiro had said they were planning on bringing the ex-wife, but then when Spelling promised some marquee name for her, they had to change it to a short arc because they could not keep on paying, for instance, Sophia Lauren the same fee for 22 episodes. Once the Pollocks insisted the character was too good to waste "on a quick in and out," the plan changed to finding someone long term.
     
  16. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson drilling for soap

    Message Count:
    7,685
    Trophy Points:
    8,250
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    somewherie on the prairie
    Ratings:
    +14,481
    Member Since:
    April 2002
    And I wonder what that short arc would have been...
     
  17. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Well-Known Member

    Message Count:
    820
    Trophy Points:
    480
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alexis' studio
    Ratings:
    +1,374
    Gender:
    Male
    Member Since:
    2017 I think (unless it is 2016)
    I can't think it would have worked. If anything, either the big name casting (and ex-wife arc) would have worked and then her departure would leave the show worse off, or it wouldn't have worked and would have given the network a reason to kill it--like, ok, you tried it all to no avail. I am curious when the change happened. Collins had said in early interviews that she was cast for a few episodes; yet the Pollocks mention in an interview (I think it is a British book called "I am a VCR") that they tried to dissuade Sophia Lauren by telling her husband/manager Carlo Ponti that the new character would be so horrible, she would cause Krystle to lose her child--to which Ponti exclaimed "Sophia would love such a challenge" but finally money killed the deal. Was the ex-wife causing the miscarriage part of the mini-arc? Who knows.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. tommie

    tommie Soap Chat Dream Maker

    Message Count:
    1,841
    Trophy Points:
    892
    Location:
    Sweden
    Ratings:
    +2,158
    Member Since:
    I dunno
    I tend to assume it was. Just think about it - if they quickly need an excuse for Alexis to be exiled once again then what better way to do it than Blake / Krystle finding out for sure that Alexis shot that gun? The reason Alexis stayed on was because there was no proof of her doing, just a whole bunch of "coincidences" but nothing that could 100% tie her to the "accident".
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. AndyLaird

    AndyLaird Soap Chat Active Member

    Message Count:
    100
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +169
    I'm not sure about that. Remember Steven had an affair with Claudia in the first season, so the fact that he had some sexual attraction to women was there from the start. And it's in season 2, the Pollocks' season, that he made his "Steven is gay" speech - which is pretty unequivocal.

    I don't think the racing career or Sammy Jo marriage were out of character - after the trauma of what happened with Ted it isn't surprising he wanted to explore other sides of himself. But when none of it worked, he came back to "Steven is gay".
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Well-Known Member

    Message Count:
    820
    Trophy Points:
    480
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alexis' studio
    Ratings:
    +1,374
    Gender:
    Male
    Member Since:
    2017 I think (unless it is 2016)
    That was at the very last episode, and I suspect that was more about Al Corley leaving than about the Pollocks having an epiphany about the character, whom they had dulled all season long.

    We'll have to agree ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶w̶r̶o̶n̶g̶ to disagree about that. :D
     
    • Funny Funny x 1

Share This Page