If You Had Been In Charge Of Deciding Whether To Rehire Patrick Duffy

Discussion in 'Dallas - The Original Series' started by Kenny Coyote, Dec 6, 2019.

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What Would You Have Said To Patrick Duffy When He Asked To Return For Season 10?

Poll closed Dec 13, 2019.
  1. No, we can't kill the credibility of the show just to bring Bobby back.

    94.7%
  2. Sure, the fans will be so happy Bobby is back that nothing else will matter to them!

    5.3%
  1. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    Tell me you're joking. You don't honestly believe he did the math, do you?

    The idea Larry "did the math" is ludicrous." Why? The information wasn't provided in the detail necessary. What was Ewing Oil's total payroll expenditure in 1984? How many fields were running in 1980 and what was the total revenue from each one?
     
  2. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

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    It's all just according to Larry, babe. He said, "JR was a disaster as an oil man."
     
  3. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    I want to vote "no" because his return was not a plotline, it was an un-plotline, in fact, it un-plotted an entire season.
    But then he couldn't have been in new Dallas, so…yeah, welcome back the real Patrick Duffy - and to hell with the consequences!
     
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  4. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    Since Larry claimed to have"done the math" then maybe you'll understand why I don't put a lot of stock in what he says about JR's abilities a an oil man. If I heard Larry talk about how to become a great actor, I'd listen. If he talked about the merits of Leonard Katzmann as opposed to Philip Capice, I'd take it with a grain of salt. If he were talking about who is a great oilman (or businessman in general) the likelihood I'd listen at all is about the same as if he had given a seminar on smart ways to invest for retirement.

    Besides, in Dallas, almost all the main characters make decisions that result in horrifying consequences. The only way to reliably gauge how good somebody is as an oilman on Dallas is how his contemporaries regard his abilities.

    In the year of the contest for Ewing Oil, Bobby exclaims (to an empty room, therefore he has no reason to lie): "JR, my God do you know how to write a contract"! The audience can tell Bobby wishes he were that good at making the stipulations of contracts. When Jeremy Wendell, who has made it to being the most powerful oilman in the whole story says tat JR is the rival he has who he fears, that's the greatest compliment he could give JR's abilities as a oilman. There's nothing quite like having the respect and admiration of one's peers.
     
  5. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

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    So you're an oil man.
     
  6. Laurie Marr

    Laurie Marr Soap Chat Active Member

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    Apart from the mortgage story (and that was something of a Pyrrhic victory for JR) I’m at a loss to think of ANY major business storyline where his schemes ended up being profitable for Ewing Oil. Even as a kid I was perplexed about the mismatch between the mythologising of JR’s business acumen and the serial failure of his money making ventures.
     
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  7. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    I understand that just because JR Ewing was an oilman doesn't make Larry Hagman an oilman. You believe that Larry "did the math himself", which is really amazing considering that the numbers necessary to do perform that particular calculation don't even exist.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
  8. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    Of course. Because why would he know better than any random fan the role he played and brought to life for 14 years ?
     
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  9. Laurie Marr

    Laurie Marr Soap Chat Active Member

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    Even a random review of just some of the big business schemes don’t quite add up to a ringing endorsement of JR’s business skills:

    Asian Oil Deal - Fail
    Offshore Leases - Fail
    Winning Ewing Oil Contest - Fail
    Calhoun Scheme - Fail
    Weststar Takeover - Fail
     
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  10. stevew

    stevew Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    I agree. It ended the series for me. It was a waisted opportunity. I’d have turned JR up a notch. They loved to hate him so let’s hate him. Conspire with Katherine to over turn Rebecca’s will and strip Pam and Cliff of everything, then destroy Katherine to get it. Prove paternity, that Christoper is JR’s biological child and take him and Bobby’s inheritance from Pam - the only way she can keep Chris is to sell JR his share of EO for a cut rate price, except Jack. Everyone else sells to JR once he has control. Clayton and Miss Ellie flee Southfork for Knots Landing. She turns Southfork over to him and he starts to drill for oil. And he goes after Jeremy Wendell beating him in one deal after after another. Making him so bad no one can believe it.

    Except with Sue Ellen - turn that around and make him the loyal loving husband. Sue Ellen finds herself pregnant again, but nearly dies giving birth to their daughter Ellie. JR and her become closer, a romance to end all romances ensues. She stands by JR. JR is right, Jock promised him Ewing Oil and Herbert’s will promises his business to Katherine and Grandpa Southfork always says Southfork would be JR’s one day. In return JR protects Sue Ellen at all cost. He even turns over day to day running of EO to retire Southfork and be with his family.

    Now there has to be more than JR taking over the family and winning through a scorched earth policy and growing into his father. This should be a foundation for what follows, an opportunity to shake everything up.

    Maybe Pamela marries Jeremy Wendell to protect her and Christopher from JR after Cliff takes up drinking and nearly dies.

    Maybe Donna takes on a political office and goes up against JR head to head and strains her marriage further with Ray.

    Maybe it’s revealed, like Hunt, JR had a secret family, maybe 3 kids in their twenties - good actors, capable foils and a return to the show about family dynamics and who will inherit Ewing Oil from JR?

    Anyway, something which really shook things up after Bobby’s death.
     
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  11. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    I like some aspects of this a lot, very creative, and find other aspects questionable. I appreciate the amount of thought you put into it! So I'll comment on it section by section.

    Helping Katherine strip Pam and Cliff of everything gives Katherine a significant role and she was underutilized. I found her confession on the courthouse steps to be ridiculous, so I'm certainly in favor of making Katherine more clever. After losing Patrick Duffy, they can't afford to underutilize the main cast they have left and this would make Katherine part of the main cast.

    But then it says "destroy Katherine to get it. " I'd rather that not happen. Concentrating all that power in JR or any one character makes the other characters less capable of having an impact on how things evolve. I like characters with efficacy. No, that doesn't make a "chauvinist", contrary to what a few people here apparently believe. I didn't write most of the female characters on Dallas to be ineffectual, did I? I just call things like I see them. Don't shoot the messenger!

    So, why "destroy Katherine" now that you have her in a position to be able to do some interesting things? Having lost Patrick Duffy would make me want to get the most out of the remaining characters I have. People tend to not like new characters once a show has been established as having a certain core ensemble, so I'd want to get the most out of the tried and true characters who I know interest the Dallas audience!

    I'd have JR exact a fee for obtaining Howard Wentworth's estate for Katherine - one third of it goes to JR and Katherine is still very wealthy in her own right.

    Taking Christopher from Pam is brutal, but would be the impetus to get an Emmy award winning performance out of Victoria Principal! Imagine the performances losing Christopher could have brought out of her.

    I can't imagine the Miss Ellie that we grew to know and love would ever "flee Southfork" because she's angry at how JR is behaving. Why would she be the one to leave? It's her house! Besides, giving JR Southfork would be a reward for what he's done. Only bad parents reward bad behavior. It encourages more of the same behavior, so why would she do that? So she and Clayton stay. JR also stays because this is Dallas and if they don't live together at Southfork, it's not.

    Besides, Barbara Bel Geddes and Howard Keel are two of the best actors in the ensemble. They're not expendable.

    Since I wouldn't want to portray JR giving up his son at any price, he keeps Christopher and Pam sells him the Ewing Oil shares because she's distraught and just wants rid of anything to do with Ewing Oil.

    I like the idea of JR going after Jeremy Wendell and having Wendell featured as a main cast member as well. William Smithers was one of the best actors they had; he deserves to be in more scenes.


    Excellent! Did anyone really feel the need to see JR and Sue Ellen continue to be so hostile to each other? I'd certainly had my fill of it. I like your way of resolving things between them in a positive way. To me, "drama" doesn't equal constant negativity, but apparently to some of the producers of today's shows it does, which makes them unwatchable. I watch TV to be entertained - not to see constant misery.

    Ooh, Pam and Jeremy? I just don't see any possible chemistry there. John Beck did a fine job as Mark Graison so I'd have him return, pretty much the way they had him return. That was good, and he and Pam make a much better and more likely couple than Pam and Jeremy Wendell would, in my opinion. Mark would help Pam recover from losing Christopher, and he'd become a major adversary for JR. So with him battling Wendell, which I thought was great, and then having to deal with Mark too, JR would have his hands full.

    I'll leave it there, I think Donna going after JR too would get repetitious. I wouldn't want Dallas to become "JR vs The World. "

    Donna and Ray would either reach an understanding, where they have reasonable expectations from their marriage and end up happy together, or things get worse and worse until they divorce. People seem to love the couple of Dona and Ray, so why not have them end up being happy together? Not everything has to be bleak just because it's drama. Good drama is like a rollercoaster ride - full of highs and lows.

    Thanks Stevew for the story, you're a good writer.

    Edit: Cliff's descent into alcoholism, just like his father before him is a good idea and Ken Kercheval would have done an amazing job with it! I'd like to see Pamela be the one who does everything she can to save Cliff from himself. What do you think happens? Does she succeed in saving Cliff from becoming another Digger?
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
  12. Via The Void

    Via The Void Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    One thing you guy's & gal's need to remember here, if Patrick Duffy had not returned the Ben Stivers character played by Steve Forrest (who later morphed in to Wes Parmalee) would've ultimately revealed to be Jock Ewing after all.

    It was partly Bobby's return which nixed the character of Jock coming back, but if Duffy hadn't have come back the direction of the show would've been a lot different those last few seasons without him. :)
     
  13. Via The Void

    Via The Void Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    That was Duffy's fault, he told the Producers he wanted to leave where there was no possibility of a return! :(
     
  14. Snarky's Ghost

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    Larry also determined that Bobby actually made more money for the company. And yet you're enough of an oil man to know Pam couldn't compete with JR.
     
  15. Michael Torrance

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    Sometimes, the point I wanted to make has already been made about that dream, so all that is left is to quote.

     
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  16. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    You bet!

    The idea of Pam competing at the highest level in business is like somebody who thinks she could be be a doctor because she watches General Hospital every day.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
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  17. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    It worked for Alexis (but then again, she was watching the Love Boat)
     
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  18. thomaswak

    thomaswak Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    Producers should have made a face cast of Duffy, made a realistic wax figure of him, eyes closed, and say that he was in a coma lol
    Imagine poor Victoria Principal, shooting some scenes of Pam talking about her life and her problems to a life-size PD doll...

    I take back what I said. It would have been ridiculous.
     
  19. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    And in the words of George Michael, "some mistakes were built to last."
    While I don't think the dream was the only possible explanation (it was the laziest one), in the end I would have told Duffy: Bobby stays dead.
    But Duffy could have come back for a few episodes at least even then, tormenting Pam in her dreams that she abandoned Christopher's future in Ewing Oil in the hands of J.R. and is not being a careful guardian of his legacy, prompting her to go to court and claim her state of mind from grief was such that the signing over was null and void, and wanting her control of the shares back.
     
  20. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    That's a rumor. If you have the DVD, look in the special features section - there's a special feature where they specifically debunk that myth and tell you the real story.
     

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