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If You Had Been In Charge Of Deciding Whether To Rehire Patrick Duffy

Discussion in 'Dallas - The Original Series' started by Kenny Coyote, Dec 6, 2019.

?

What Would You Have Said To Patrick Duffy When He Asked To Return For Season 10?

Poll closed Dec 13, 2019.
  1. No, we can't kill the credibility of the show just to bring Bobby back.

    94.7%
  2. Sure, the fans will be so happy Bobby is back that nothing else will matter to them!

    5.3%
  1. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Star EXP: 3 Years

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    And this is what I had hoped for in the return season after Swan Song. Watching The Ewing Family, Part 1 of 2 we witness the sheer brilliance of JR at his cruel best when he lashes out at Sue Ellen upon her return to Southfork after a day of shopping.

    I particularly like this comment. I think the viewer might have enjoyed watching a rampaging JR inflict deathly blows to those responsible for his brothers death.
     
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  2. Via The Void

    Via The Void Soap Chat Well-Known Member EXP: 3 Years

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    Which boxset? Season nine or season ten? :)

    It actually depends who's telling you what as it was a slightly different production team who helmed season nine. Whilst the old crew who returned for season ten probably didn't want to have Wes be revealed as Jock, I'm not so sure of those in charge for season nine. ;)
     
  3. Lastkidpicked

    Lastkidpicked Soap Chat Addict EXP: 11 Years

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    I'm glad you brought his up because we are doing are re-watch of the series and just watched the dream season a few weeks ago.

    And if you watch it again, see if you agree that it holds up even better than many of the other seasons.

    One thing we really appreciated on the rewatch is that this season allowed us to explore, through Ray and Donna, many issues that had not been presented on a prime time show.

    Unplanned pregnancy, adoption, down's syndrome, deaf and other special needs children.

    After this season, the writing just wasn't the same. With or without Patrick Duffy, the show was past it's prime.
     
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  4. Lastkidpicked

    Lastkidpicked Soap Chat Addict EXP: 11 Years

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    Another theme that they started to explore after Bobby died is a theme of,

    "What's all this for?"

    J.R. was the best example of that. He finally had Ewing Oil all to himself but so what? It wasn't the same without Bobby.

    J.R. even went into Bobby's empty office and said that out loud.

    And after Bobby's death, it gave more meaning to Pam's questioning of, "Don't we have enough money? Why are we doing this?"

    To put a finer point on it: There were themes they could continue to explore with Bobby's death that would no longer be explored once it was revealed that Bobby didn't die after all.
     
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  5. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Enthusiast EXP: 12 Years

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    That's a nice insight - the subject of "What's all this for"?

    Of course Ewing Oil wasn't the same without Bobby, and he missed him badly. That doesn't make JR weak, or less dangerous; it makes him human. He's a guy who does a lot of unethical things, but when he does them, he believes he's justified. He believes they're necessary things he must do for the good of his family and for the good of the company his dad founded and built from the ground up.

    Regarding Pam's question; The answer I would give, would be something reminiscent of what another character said. When you see the name of the character, don't think I'm claiming this character was one of Dallas' quality characters - he wasn't - but they did happen to give him a line that is remarkably appropriate to this question.

    Nicholas Pierce once said (try not to laugh!): "I don't do anything just for the money; the money is just a byproduct." Yes, I realize JR wouldn't likely say that. But maybe if he looked at it this way, it would have helped him at that particular time. Once they'd made their fortune, going from a company worth hundreds of millions to a company worth billions wasn't going to make them now able to afford what they'd always wanted. JR always had enough money to take John Ross to Disney World, enough money to pay for whichever college John Ross wanted to go to, enough to afford any car he might have wanted to drive.

    Hopefully there's more to it than just greed, and of there isn't, that's sad. Why would JR go on and make Ewing Oil bigger, or why does any businessman who is already more than financially secure continue to work? He'd do it because he enjoys the resourceful use of his mind. This what Pam was never able to understand, possibly because Bobby felt this on some level, but not on a conscious level to where he could effectively verbalize it. Communication is essential in a marriage and I can only imagine how many marriages have fallen by the wayside because the a man couldn't effectively put into words the reasons for his behavior so that his wife would understand what something which seems unimportant to her may have vital importance to him. In Bobby's case he wasn't able to impress upon her why it was important to him to continue in the contest - that there a certain things a man has to do if he's going to be able to feel good about himself, just as there are things she needs to have the freedom to do if she's going to feel good about herself. Pam thought: Why does he keep needing more and more money? What she either couldn't or wouldn't understand is that he was taking on the challenge of the contest, not for the greater accumulation of wealth, but for the value he derived from the competition - the sense of certainty, the sense of confidence and the enhanced self-esteem to be gained from going through the process of the contest.

    Back to the situation in the dream season - "What's all this for"? Of what benefit is it for JR to continue on in Ewing Oil?

    What is was for, or should have been for is: The enjoyment of achieving a sense of efficacy, of taking pride in the entire process of becoming more knowledgeable about what he does and achieving that sense of mastery he derives from going through the whole process - from being the wide-eyed, green rookie to the accomplished veteran nearing retirement.

    He takes pride in becoming a little bit better at it what he does day by day, year by year. It's the pride he takes in running his business the best way he knows how to, enjoys learning how to get better at his profession, and because he enjoys the challenge involved in competition. He takes pride in building his company the best way he knows how, and will have the satisfaction of being able to teach the business to his children when they're adults.

    If not, if it's money for the sake of money, and there is no increased sense of efficacy, of achieving mastery in a certain skill - of becoming a more competent businessman, if he's not continuing to learn and grow as a human being as a result, then he's not going to ever be happy. If a man does this - goes after money for the sake of money without any appreciation for the process of earning it - and wonders why even if he now has the big bank account he's still not happy, it's because money is all he's gained from the process and he's bereft of all the the rest!
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
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  6. Lastkidpicked

    Lastkidpicked Soap Chat Addict EXP: 11 Years

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    Wow! That is a very well thought out and insightful post.

    Want to see something awesome? Read the above line by Kenny Coyote once again. If you are alone, then read it out loud (trust me, it's worth it).

    Now, read this:

    A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
    The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head
    Go hence to have more talk of these sad things
    For never was a story of more woe
    Than this of Juliet and her Romeo

    Did you notice how Kenny's lines are very much the same in tone as Shakespeare's? I would lay it out there that the entire Dallas series is a parallel to a Shakespearean tragedy.

    Think of the opening lines of Dallas:

    Pam (Jokingly) Bobby James Ewing! I don't believe you!

    Bobby (Laughing) Well, now this is a fine state of affairs! Married less than 24 hours and my new bride already doubts my voracity!

    Pam (Bantering back) I do if you say you're not nervous!

    Bobby puts his arm around Pam, who says, "Your folks are going to throw me right off that ranch!"

    And Bobby replies (and we all know how this will end): "Relax, honey. You're my wife now. You're family. You are a Ewing, and once that sinks in they are going to love you like I do."

    Young love! What could go wrong?
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
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  7. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Enthusiast EXP: 12 Years

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    Thank you very much @Lastkidpicked to be Santa's Helper. That's one of the nicest compliments I've ever gotten.

    I haven't read Romeo and Juliet since high school, but it's one of the stories that has lasted for centuries. I don't watch a whole lot of TV, but as far as I know, no other series ever told a modern version of Romeo and Juliet in the type of depth and detail that Dallas did. It was really an ambitious undertaking and they did a remarkably good job of it. There's a general idea a lot of people believe - that while Dallas was very successful, it was just trashy fun. It was a lot more than that though. People like you who look for it find a lot more substance in Dallas than the mainstream media ever gave it credit for having.

    Dallas has had a tremendous influence that we continue to see more than ever. One is in the format it used. When Dallas started exclusively telling one long story that continued week to week, no other primetime TV show was doing that. Now it's hard to find a TV drama series that doesn't use that format.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
  8. Clubsoda

    Clubsoda Soap Chat Active Member

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    Couldnt they have brought him back by us finding his death had been faked and hed been held hostage or something?

    I still cant believe making the death and season a dream was their final decision. I believe Patrick claims his wife thought of the idea, no offence to her but shame they listened.
     
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  9. Via The Void

    Via The Void Soap Chat Well-Known Member EXP: 3 Years

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    It might not just have been Patrick's wife, I've heard from various people on this very forum that Leonard Katzman wanted everything erased from the previous season which he didn't work on. Making it a dream certainly would've erased everything so maybe the buck stops with Katzman as he would've been the one to make that final decision. :)
     
  10. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Star EXP: 3 Years

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    Have I also read on this forum Angelica Nero was Leonard Katzman's creation? If this is correct then it shows poor judgement on creating a character not suited for Dallas.
     
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  11. Seaviewer

    Seaviewer Soap Chat Enthusiast EXP: 18 Years

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    I can't answer the poll question as posed. Sure, I would have brought Bobby back but not at the expense of destroying the show's credibility. The dream explanation almost seems calculated to do just that.
     
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  12. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Star EXP: 3 Years

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    Yeah, it is not an either/or. Duffy (and even Bobby) could have come back in other ways. There is a difference between taking a hit in your credibility and blowing it to smithereens.
     
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  13. stevew

    stevew Soap Chat TV Fanatic EXP: 8 Years

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    Those responsible and those he just considered responsible. Clayton and his momma and Ray and Donna for accepting Pamela into their lives. Wendell for attempting to take his daddy and Bobby’s legacy. Everyone.

    I also think if JR was to be so very bad he’d need something to anchor him as Bobby was gone and Sue Ellen could have been it instead of turning his anger at her.
     
  14. stevew

    stevew Soap Chat TV Fanatic EXP: 8 Years

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    The answer should have been legacy. Promote his father and brothers legacy and building a family with Sue Ellen and John Ross that he could be proud of and revenge for anyone who tarnished either. Now that could have been fun.
     
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  15. stevew

    stevew Soap Chat TV Fanatic EXP: 8 Years

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    I did not mean for ever like Bobby’s death by any means. A destroyed character with JR on top is an opportunity for revenge. I like the idea with Pam and Mark so maybe my next move would have been to mary Katherine and Jeremy and move against JR. Revenge is a vicious cycle. And Katherine was a keeper.

    Miss Ellie would have lost both sons and left to be with Gary. I think that would have opened up a change for Sue Ellen to be the new mistress of Southfork and changed the dynamic. Certainly they can cone back as needed. It would also have been interesting on KL and allow BBG to take time off without it seeming odd on either show if her health needed (no more Donna Reed replacement crap). And JRs parents were bad parents. No doubt about that.

    I could see JR keeping Christoper and that being some issue for Sue Ellen certainly.

    Not JR verses the world by any means. The characters I’d bring in would be his allies, along with Sue Ellen. It would be JR verses the Wendell’s as the main adversary as Cliff seemed to run his course in my opinion and so did Pam. Donna would be an ally of sorts to Jeremy, keeping her relevant and one of the best actors on the show.

    No she can’t save him. In fact when VP wants to leave its Cliff who accidentally kills Pam. But I’d certainly make him Pamela Rebecca’s father because that was just too good of a set up with John Ross in later years. If have Miss Ellie save him and get him back in his feet.

    Thank you. I do enjoy the what if’s.
     
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  16. stevew

    stevew Soap Chat TV Fanatic EXP: 8 Years

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    JR sits by a freshly covered grave in the family cemetary on Southfork. Way behind him sits Sue Ellen with John Ross asleep in her lap.






    Miss Ellie and Clayton walk out of the back of Southfork with Gary and their luggage. Gary is happy to have them come visit California.






    Katherine is escorted to a jail conference room to meet with her lawyer. He says, “Our defense is it was an accident.”


    “I know that. But what is this about my father’s will?”


    “It’s clear. Your mother had no right to leave anything to Pam or Cliff.”


    “And you can prove this?”


    “Yes I can.”






    Still sitting there, the sun much lower in the sky, JR says to Sue Ellen, “When I you gonna leave me.”


    “I don’t want to leave you.”


    “You know I married you because you were the prettiest woman in Texas. And you married me because my daddy was Jock Ewing. Why are we even trying to pretend anymore?”


    “Because I love you JR.”


    “That’s your great misfortune.”


    “Please. Please let me help you through this.”


    “I don’t think anyone can.”


    “I can. Katherine Wentworth’s lawyer. I know him. I know him well enough to help you.”


    JR turns around. “Help me do what?”


    “Make sure she pays for what she did to Bobby.”


    “And Pam and Cliff.”


    “Actually yes, from what he told me.”


    “I can’t believe momma let them attend his funeral. After what they did.”


    “I agree.”


    “You do?”


    “Of course JR. Bobby should have never brought her home. Look what they did. Used him. Cliff used me. They stole everything from Katherine.”


    “What do you mean.”


    “Richard Osgood, Katherine’s lawyer said her fathers will set it up so Rebecca couldn’t leave anything to Pam and Cliff. They stole everything from Katherine. She wasn’t trying to hurt Bobby. She was after Pam.”


    “Really?”


    “I also heard Jeremy Wendell made an offer on Christopher’s share of Ewing Oil already.”


    “Did he? Did momma leave with Gary?”


    “I think so.”


    “Sue Ellen, I have to tell you something you won’t like.”


    “Go ahead.” Holding tight to John Ross she steadies herself.


    “Kristopher is my son. I let him go for Bobby’s shake. I would have stopped Farraday, but Bobby handled it. Gave me an out. But now that he’s gone.”


    “You want him here at Southfork with us?”


    “I want you to be his momma. He don’t need to grow up knowing about Kristen. Or Pam.”


    “Alright JR. But there is something I have to tell you. I’m pregnant.”


    “You are? Are you sure?”


    “Yeah. I’m scared to death. I need you JR. I can’t do this again. I can’t.”


    JR gets up and walks to her. “Stay sober?”


    “Please JR.”


    John Ross sits up, “Momma?”


    “It’s OK John Ross. Momma ain’t feeling well. But were gonna take good care of her.” JR hugs them both. In Sue Ellen’s ear his whispers, “I’ll destroy them all. Every last one of them.”





    Opening Theme, starting:

    Morgan Brittany
    Linda Gray
    Larry Hagman
    Susan Howard
    Steve Kanaly
    Ken Kercheval
    Priscilla Beaulieu Presley
    Victoria Principal
    William Smithers





    6 months latter (losing Bobby required a jump in my opinion)

    JR sits at a board table with Katherine. She signs some papers. He hands her a check. “Well Katherine. Don’t spend that all in one place.”


    She takes it laughing. “I don’t care what you do with Barnes Wentworth. But Wentworth Industries is fathers legacy. I expect you take of it.”


    “That’s not really your concern anymore. It’s not like you’re selling it because you want to darlin’.”


    “I just want away from the Barnes and the Ewing’s. So do what you want.”


    “I intend to.” Holding up the papers. “This’ll say you a lot of trouble in court for what you did.”


    “I’ll get off.”


    “I’m told you will. It was an accident.”


    “That’s right. But my lawyer says you’ve still got a civil court. So what ever JR. You got what you wanted, for a hell of a deal.”


    “That’s true. But come on now. We both know it wasn’t an accident. But I don’t get it. You loved Bobby. Why?”


    “I wasn’t trying to kill Bobby. I was trying to kill Pam. Bobby saved her.”


    JR sits up and smiles. “That’s all I needed to here.” The police walk into the room and tell JR they got just what they needed for premeditated murder.” Katherine struggles as they arrest her, swearing revenge. The DA assures JR they’ll get the death penalty.






    I’d use every bit of Donna and Ray’s story from the Dream Season.






    At Cliff’s apartment Pam begs JR not to take Christopher. “Pam, the court officers are outside. I don’t want my son traumatized anymore by all of this.”


    “You can’t do this.”


    “Pam, he’s my son. Now go and get him.”


    “Please Sue Ellen, you can’t let him do this.”


    A noticeably pregnant Sue Ellen says, “Pam he’ll be OK. He belong on Southfork. He’s our flesh and blood.”


    “But Bobby . . .”


    “That’s why I didn’t say anything while he was alive. I wouldn’t hurt Bobby for the world. But now.”


    “No. Please no. Please JR. Please.”


    Mark helps Pamela walk away from them. “He’s up stairs. Go get him.”


    “Decent of you.”


    “Not for you JR. But that boy doesn’t deserve to see his momma like this.” Mark gets her into the Kitchen.






    JR, Sue Ellen and the boys walk into Southfork. The boys run up stairs to their rooms. Sue Ellen says, “Did you hear from your momma?”


    “She offered me her share of Ewing Oil to leave Christopher with Pam.”


    “Pam offered you Christopher’s share, why would she think you’d sell your son for money?”


    “She told me if I did this, she could could never come back.”


    “She just expects you to walk away from your own son?”


    “Her and Clayton are gonna sell me Southfork too. And Gary’s selling me his share of Ewing Oil.”


    “So that’s it. She just walks away?”


    “I guess so. I bought out Christopher’s trust fund. And set up two more trust funds that’ll eventually be the same size for John Ross and Bobby.” JR puts his hand on Sue Ellen’s belly. All that’s left is Ray and Jack. I’m keeping Jack on with Ewing Oil. He’ll be over for dinner. We can work out what we need to afterwards. He’s bringing Jenna.”


    “Jack is seeing Jenna Wade.”


    “Apparently. I’m encouraging it. With her pregnant with Bobby’s child, I want that baby raised a Ewing. Soon as he’s born, he’ll get half of Christopher’s money, I’ll see to it.”


    “And Ray?”


    “I want Ray gone. And I want his land back too. I made him an offer?”


    “And?”


    “He’ll sell the company shares, not the land.”


    “So he’s next?”


    “I gave him an opportunity. I’m done playing with these people.”
     
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  17. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle EXP: 19 Years

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    If it had to be a dream, then, yes, it being Bobby's comatose dream would be the only thing that made a lick of sense.

    But, otherwise....

    I'd establish that Donna and Ray lost custody of Tony after Aunt Lil testifies. Which creates new trouble for the Krebbses, and Donna moves back into Southfork by season's end.

    I'd have a shot in the final episode of the previous season where Pam comes out of her wedding and gasps, you see a crowd across the street but nothing more... before Bobby pops up in her shower in the final scene...

    I'd take one episode to do all this:

    Pam sees only pink tile, no Bobby anymore, camera pans down to see Mark Graison's body on the floor of the shower. Bobby, knowing that Pam has just married Mark, first visits Jenna, who, shocked, pulls him into her room and rapes him (off camera). Detectives reveal to the family that, with Miss Ellie's cooperation, Bobby was hidden away for months, his will executed, because the FBI and Interpol had become aware of an elaborate plot put in place by Katherine, just before she died, to anonymously hire assassins thru a shadowy eastern-european/oriental syndicate to kill Bobby -- and possibly other Ewings -- and so Miss Wentworth's death was unknown or irrelevant to the killers because they had no knowledge that she was their client.... thus explaining away retroactively the entire Angelica Nero storyline. When JR complains his private eye had verified all of it, the federal detectives show him a photo of his investigator, pin thru his neck, on the floor of a Fort Worth motel -- perhaps he'd stumbled across something Nero didn't want him to know... Jenna has that dullard look on her face when she and Bobby hear the TV report that Mark Graison is dead... Sue Ellen has a bandage and bruise, and Jamie was several yeards away from the car when it blew up... Donna is preggers again, much to her distress, as Ray finishes building his house.... Turns out the IRS worked with the other agencies so no fraud charges can be dumped on the Ewings for executing Bobby's will, and Harve Smithfield tries to convince JR not to waste time and money by suing his own mother or the feds, and that JR's time is better spent trying to buy back the parts of Ewing Oil he'd thought he'd purchased a short times earlier... Pam goes to her bedroom door at the end of the first episode of the new season to see Bobby's face; she hesitates, shakes her head gently, and then closes the door, leaving Bobby's face in partial darkness. Freeze frame.

    First scene of second episode of the season: Bobby's comes into Pam's room and explains what happened, and Pam realizes she'd thought she'd seen him in the shower because she'd caught a glimpse of him across the street as she'd come out of her wedding to Mark, and due to the emotional shock of Mark's death... and then they're off into the new season.

    Is it perfect? No. Ask me for details.

    "Bobby -- why are you naked in my bedroom when you just stepped off from the street in front of my house??"
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Enthusiast EXP: 12 Years

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    What did you think of the storyline with Angelica Nero and them telling JR that jack was Dimitri Marinos' son? That storyline and the emerald mine might have worked for another show, but they didn't seem like Dallas to me. I'm not a fan of the over -the-top, unbelievable storylines and especially not for Dallas. It seemed like they tried to make every story more spectacular, but less realistic than the last.
     
  19. Lastkidpicked

    Lastkidpicked Soap Chat Addict EXP: 11 Years

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    You are right about that!

    It seems that this is when they veered off the path. What started out as a drama turned into a soap opera.

    If you hold this against the background of what was going on at the time, it does make sense. Dallas was competing against Mimi Vice and that show not only had wealth in terms of money, but it also had exotic locations, fast cars and beautiful women.

    In fact, one Dallas episode showed Mandy Winger acting in a scene for Miami Vice. The Miami Vice shot was over the top, a sly reference to the fact that if you wanted unrealistic stories and unrealistic characters you could switch over to Miami Vice but if you wanted good storylines you should stay tuned to Dallas.
     
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  20. lbf522

    lbf522 Soap Chat Active Member

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    I love your storyline ideas. I would add that JR and Sue Ellen should have had a daughter after John Ross who would later years be a confidant to John Ross and like John Ross have personality aspects of JR and Sue Ellen.

    I liked the dream season. It had some good parts to it like Jack not being a carbon copy of Bobby and Ellie not wanting JR to leave Southfork which was a rare instance of her caring about JR's feelings.
     
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