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Instead Of Pam Having The Accident And Leaving

Discussion in 'Dallas - The Original Series' started by Kenny Coyote, Dec 18, 2019.

?

Who Would Pam Have Been Better Off With - Bobby Or Mark?

Poll closed Dec 25, 2019.
  1. Bobby

    50.0%
  2. Mark

    50.0%
  1. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Star EXP: 12 Years

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    When I look back at Dallas, I'm amazed at what a remarkably good job they did in creating episodes as good as they did for as long as they did.

    The quality did drop off starting in the dream season, but I'm very glad they continued as long as they possibly could. I know some have said they wish that Dallas had ended as much as six years earlier than it did. I'd much rather be in a situation where I can choose to keep continuing to watch or choose to stop watching a show, than be in a situation where I have no choice - where I have to stop watching because they quit making a show. That way I can watch a show for as long as I continue to enjoy it.

    I'm generally against recasts on principle. I think they're cheap. The Miss Ellie recast was unfortunate in that it had to happen at all, but it was just one season while the original actress was regaining her health and then she returned, so it didn't affect my overall enjoyment of the show a whole lot.
     
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  2. Via The Void

    Via The Void Soap Chat Addict EXP: 3 Years

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    Mark Graison has his contacts & was apprised of the involvement of a certain Nicholas Trevino in Ewing affairs. Graison bought Trevino off & the explosion was made to look that Christopher had died in the blast. You should've been there when Christopher got to meet his Mother. I cried. Chris wanted her to re-unite with Bobby but that of course was impossible as Bobby had been re-married to Anne for a long time now. It was Chris's decision to remain with his Mother.

    Wade was my Mother's maiden name, Jenna Wade. I was a bit of a tearaway as a teenager, I never liked my step father Ray Krebbs. Too sanctimonious for my liking. Everything had to be done their way, plus they didn't like that I was gay. I was dumped into a sanitarium for treatment, one of those gay corrective treatment centers. They never work, so I was just abandoned. :(

    I'm okay now, it's largely because of Pam & Mark that I'm still alive. They took me in & I'm glad I live with my brother too now. Life is good. :)
     
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  3. B.J. Ewing

    B.J. Ewing Soap Chat Active Member

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    There's still Christopher to consider. I don't think Pam would ever leave her son to go away with Mark.
     
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  4. stevew

    stevew Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 8 Years

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    Honestly, I like your story best of any I’ve heard about what happened. It’s actually fun and JR was that awful for anyone he was after to want to remain in hiding. Add to it what JR did and Bobby helped in setting up Cliff to rot and die in a Mexican prison - I get staying gone.

    There could be a whole back story of what JR did to destroy Katherine and take from her everything the Barnes and Wentworth’s had: After JR’s death a team of lawyers descend on Cliff and Pam’s estate (though he knew she was alive), to strip them (now Pamela) of their share of Herbert’s estate (per Herbert’s original will). JR had forced Katherine to marry him and let her die in a sanatorium in Switzerland (hence the wild goose chase to Switzerland looking for Pam was actually Katherine). JR and Katherine’s daughter, Eleanor “Ellie” Rebecca Ewing, becomes the sole heir to Herbert Wentworth - one more part of JR’s masterpiece.

    John Ross in partnership with Carlos DelSol bankrupts Bobby and Sue Ellen to take their share of Ewing Global. JR’s team of lawyers proves Miss Ellie left all of Southfork to John Ross (after Bobby gave it back to her) in trust with Bobby, but since Bobby tried to sell it out from under him, John Ross get control of all of it now - which includes the oil. Ryland goes to prison. John Ross forms a paramilitary company with Ryland’s CIA contacts and Judith becomes a U.S. Senator thanks to John Ross and then sells him Ryland Shipping. JR, through John Ross, destroys Nasser and sets up a coup giving him a lease on all of his father’s county’s oil through the new government. Then we find out about Jock’s CyberByte shares and Clayton leaving his West Star shares to John Ross in trust through Dusty, which JR’s lawyers also break.

    John Ross and Ellie meet and merge their holdings into Ewing Industries, 42% each with Carlos DelSol owning 16%. We see the name Ewing Oil again as a subsidiary drilling for oil on Southfork - this is a JR worthy masterpiece.

    John Ross and Ellie are given the task to bring Boaz “Bo” Ewing, their brother, Cally’s son, to Southfork and create a family. John Ross also sends Elena and Nick to prison for their drug trafficking involvement and John Ross gets sole custody of his son with Elena, John Ross Ewing IV. Pamela, living in the cottage at Southfork, and John Ross work to put their marriage back together with Emma going to Virginia with her grandmother. Bobby and Ann stay in Southfork. Bobby runs the ranch as it turns out her never gave Miss Ellie back the Southfork Cattle Company. He works out a land lease with John Ross in exchange for 1/2 the cattle company.

    John Ross continues to pay his mother 1/6 of the income of Southfork oil (along with Bobby and Gary) - also part of JR’s masterpiece. JR also set up the Ewing Family Foundation and left Sue Ellen in charge to “clean up” the Ewing name. Sue Ellen begins to date Carlos DelSol and represents his share of Ewing Industries at board meetings.

    Turns out JR left Westfork to Gary.

    Bobby finds out JR left him the old Wade ranch and a set of instructions on how to find his real son, Lucas - the final piece of JR’s master piece. What will you say when Bobby arrives?
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2019
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  5. MenaceTheDennis

    MenaceTheDennis Soap Chat Member

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    You have to consider when the show was in its first run. I was a teen and in my early 20s during the prime of Dallas. Many people on here say why not just kill off Pam? Easier said than done. Duffy was adamant he wasn’t coming back two years prior, and looked how that turned out. If they killed Pam off (they might’ve considered it) and Victoria decided to come back, how would they deal with it? They couldn’t do a second dream. The first one just about killed any credibility the show had going forward. So how could they alienate even more of the dwindling audience. I’m not the biggest fan of the fireball car accident, but I can see how they were trying to cover their bases up to maybe a recast. Pam in peril was never used as a cliffhanger too, so they covered that too.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
  6. stevew

    stevew Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 8 Years

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    It did end all credibility.
     
  7. Chris2

    Chris2 Soap Chat Fan EXP: 3 Years

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    Pam and Bobby decide to take a second honeymoon after all the awfulness of the BD Calhoun situation, and to celebrate her newfound fertility. They rent a boat in Galveston. There’s a terrible storm / boating accident. Bobby survives, but Pam’s body is not found and she’s presumed dead. Bobby can mourn her loss and move on with his life, but the door is open if Victoria ever wants to come back.
     
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  8. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Star EXP: 12 Years

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    How would they deal with it if Pam had died in the car accident and then Victoria Principal decided to come back? Hopefully whoever would have been in charge of making the decision to rehire her would have said something similar to what Jock told Vaughn Leland: "A deal is a deal, you said. I believed it then and I believe it now."

    When a popular character leaves the show, the people in charge of running the show need to be able to make decisive decisions about how to best utilize the loss of that character for the good of the show. Suppose Jim Davis hadn't died when he did, but had decided to retire from acting at the end of season 4. The best way to handle losing him from the show was exactly what they did, so I have no reason to think they'd have done things any differently. Either way, they'd be losing the character of Jock from the show, so what better way could they have handled it? They got some of the best storylines they ever had as a reaction to Jock's death. So if Jim Davis hadn't died, but had decided to retire, what do you think they'd have told him if a couple years later he'd told them he wanted to come out of retirement and return to the show?

    When Victoria Principal left, and they'd decided to handle the loss of her character in a similar way - to get the best stories possible out of having Pam die - they could have created a much more compelling next few seasons. If after deciding to do that and proceeding with that vision for the show, Victoria Principal had asked to come back, they'd have had to remind her that she told them she was leaving permanently and they planned accordingly. They've got to do what is in the best interests of the overall show. It wouldn't make any sense to sacrifice the good of the show just to do let her come back because she changed her mind. The overall good of the show is their highest priority - their highest value. Victoria Principal was of value to them was well, but of a lower value than that of the entire show. Sacrificing a higher value for a lower value doesn't make any sense, so they'd have had to say to no to her in that situation.
     
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  9. stevew

    stevew Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 8 Years

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    Excellent.
     
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  10. Seaviewer

    Seaviewer Soap Chat Enthusiast EXP: 18 Years

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    I'm not sure if that's a great deal better. Missing presumed dead is still something of a cliche and the viewer would still be left in the same kind of limbo.
     
  11. Chris2

    Chris2 Soap Chat Fan EXP: 3 Years

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    Agreed that it’s a cliche. But it’s better than “burned beyond recognition; then runs away; then comes down with fatal disease syndrome”. And it’s better than Pam abandoning her young son voluntarily and later deciding to die alone rather than give her family closure. And it’s better than the characters thinking Pam dumped them to marry her plastic surgeon.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
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  12. pete lashmar

    pete lashmar Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    All the decisions producers made after the dream season are because of the dream season, they simply didn't want credibility in the show to get any lower - Bobby returning from the dead was bad enough, but then we had Jock possibly returning from the dead too. Add that to Ellie changing faces TWICE and your audience begins to see the 4th wall and the show is becoming a parody of itself.

    They were never going to kill Pam off because of what happened with Bobby. Everything looks and sounds good with hindsight, but for me they should have created a plot where Pam HAD to leave and basically write it like Gone Girl - but without the revenge setup - the viewers would have seen her plan but not the show's characters. SO, the viewers knew why she went, where she went etc but not the characters.

    Pam could then have returned if VP agreed or they re-cast - everyone wins.
     
  13. Bobby Southworth

    Bobby Southworth Soap Chat Member EXP: 6 Months

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    At the very least, they should have written it that Bobby and Cliff looked for Pam after she disappeared. Bobby just accepting everything and being mad at her never set well with me. He would have understood that she was just badly injured, and not in her right state of mind. Perhaps a conversation between Pam and either Cliff or Bobby could have taken place off screen, where she refuses to come back, and they have no choice but to accept her wishes. Bobby still could have slowly, hesitantly began dating again by the end of the 11th season. The way it was written was just out of character for Bobby. It was out of character for Pam as well, but at least she had an excuse. She was traumatized.

    As for Pam leaving to be with Mark, I say no. Mark to me was never a likable character, due to the way that he pursued her while she was still married to Bobby. I also don't think she would have left Bobby to be with Mark after they were married again.
     
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  14. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Star EXP: 12 Years

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    Seeing Bobby look for Pam for several episodes and then finally find her would have been great for the fans if Victoria Principal had been willing to appear, but otherwise, the fans don't get any payoff - they don't get to see Bobby and Pam have that crucial conversation. I think that's the most likely reason they didn't have Bobby search for Pam. If Bobby can't find her, it's a letdown. If he does find her, but we don't get to see Pam and Bobby talking to each other, it's a letdown.

    The poll we did that asked who Pam would have been better off with - Bobby or Mark - was dead even. I think John Beck got a bad deal as a result of wiping out season 9. He played his role very well and apparently there were fans who did find him likable - or they at least thought Pam would have been better off with Mark.

    Mark did pursue Pam aggressively, but then Bobby had no problem taking Pam away from Ray, his own foreman. Pam was attracted to those aggressive, type A personality men. She said she wanted "an ordinary life" and then immediately goes for a man who also runs a huge company and is highly competitive. Pam was one of those women who claims she wants one thing, but her actions show she doesn't really want what she says she wants.

    I don't think Pam would have left Bobby for Mark after remarrying either, so they would have had to have had to have Mark return and tell Pam he searched for a cure but couldn't find one and wants to be with her for as long as he has left, if she'll still marry him. To do that they would have had to have been getting ready for VP's leaving the shown advance and planned accordingly - something they didn't seem to do. If they wanted to give her a way to be able to leave and then possibly return, this is the only way I know of they could have done it well. If she doesn't return it's because Mark lived, and if not, it's because Mark died. Being with Mark in his final year or last few years is the only way I see Pam willingly leave despite the opportunity to remarry Bobby.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  15. tommie

    tommie Soap Chat Mega Star EXP: 3 Years

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    I dunno
    I would've either had her die in the fireball incident OR just have her leave. Have her finally be fed up with the Ewings after JR does something far too dastardly, divorce Bobby and have her live off screen with shared custody of Christopher a la Sue Ellen. It's not ideal, but at least we wouldn't have the ridiculous Pam the Mummy storyline and her fate left hanging because they didn't want to kill her off due to the previous Bobby fiasco.
     
  16. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Star EXP: 12 Years

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    I find it incredible that they wouldn't kill Pam off after what should have been an immediately fatal accident, because they didn't have the confidence in themselves to be able to say "no" if Victoria Principal asked to return. Pam's death should have been a monumentally important storyline, but they robbed themselves of the opportunity to do it because they couldn't commit to one vision for how the show should make the best use of the loss of Pam! When Jim Davis died, Dallas made the best use possible of losing Jock Ewing and the contest for Ewing Oil it caused was my favorite storyline they ever did.

    I wouldn't have liked Pam leaving because of something dastardly JR did. Bobby and Pam were supposed to be the Romeo and Juliet of Dallas, so her love for Bobby should always have been stronger than her hate for JR, just as nothing Cliff did should have ever turned Bobby against Pam. I could see her saying they needed to move out of Southfork to have their own home because of JR, but not divorcing Bobby because of JR.
     
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  17. Bobby Southworth

    Bobby Southworth Soap Chat Member EXP: 6 Months

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    I suggested the off screen conversation because, if it was on screen, it would have had to take place with her as the mummy or badly disfigured at that point. I'm not sure how that would have worked. I suppose the lighting could have been dim enough that we couldn't clearly make out her face?

    In any case, I think the way her departure was written, and the way Bobby handled it could have done more damage, or at least as much as the dream season scenario. Pam was supposed to be the love of his life, and he just displayed self pity and wrote her off. That was a poor ending to the story of Bobby and Pam; The couple the show was supposed to originally revolve around.

    As for Mark, I suppose if he somehow could have returned before Bobby and Pam were remarried, and asked for Pam to be with him during the end, that could have worked, and would have been better than what the writers ultimately came up with. On the other hand, it was such a big thing for Bobby and Pam to finally remarry.... It's just a shame it was so short lived, and handled the way it was with Victoria's departure. I agree, Kenny that it would have been better to just have her die, but yes, obviously they didn't want another Patrick Duffy scenario.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  18. Toni

    Toni Soap Chat Winner EXP: 18 Years

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    So easy! Throw the skunk off the train and take Pam back!!
     
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  19. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator EXP: 21 Years Staff Member

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    Oh Piggy!!!! What did that poor skunk ever do to you?? @Toni

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Star EXP: 12 Years

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    I know you're kidding, but April was the best wife Bobby ever had because she was the one who loved him and never underestimated him or ran away from him. Pam had underestimated him, thinking he couldn't handle the contest for Ewing Oil and that she had to go to court with Miss Ellie to try to take away from Bobby the opportunity to even participate in the contest. That was Bobby's decision - not Pam's or Miss Ellie's. You can't rewrite someone's will just because you don't like it. Ellie didn't believe Jock was mentally incompetent when he wrote that will and you could tell how that while she said that in court (so she could rewrite Jock's will) you could tell she didn't believe her own words. She only said Jock was incompetent because her lawyer said saying that was the only way she and Pam could win.

    I find Pam going to court to try to take away Bobby's fathers' right to have his will carried out just because she didn't like it to be disgusting. I doubt Pam would have wanted someone else to rewrite her will. A will is literally someone's last request. Because of that, it's sacred. Ewing Oil was Jock's company and he had the right to say who inherited it and how. Pam tried to do everything she could to deny Bobby the opportunity Jock offered him and that's unforgivable. I was glad Bobby stood up for his right to participate in that contest and that he proved he had the wherewithal to win it!

    Pam said to Bobby: "You're not the man I married"! What she was seeing at that time was Bobby in a stressful situation. When Bobby saw Pam in a stressful situation, when she was in the mental hospital after trying to jump of he roof of a building, Bobby was supportive. He didn't tell Pam that she was no longer the woman he had married because the Pam he married would never have tried to jump off a building just because she couldn't wait the two years to adopt just like any other couple who wants to adopt does. Bobby stayed supportive of Pam through everything but she refused to reciprocate.

    Bobby was always there for Pam when she needed his support. The one time Bobby really need Pam's support, she turned against him and left him! A few weeks later she was in France with Mark Graison - not something I'd expect from a woman who would have been mourning the loss her marriage to supposedly "the love of her life." Wow, Pam must have been so distraught over her marriage to Bobby ending to be on the beach in France with Mark about a month later.

    Marriage is a give and take relationship and that doesn't mean Bobby give and Pam just takes. Yet when it was her time to give back and be there for him in a difficult time for him, she ran!

    I believe April was the best wife Bobby ever had. She didn't underestimate him, she didn't try to take away something away from Bobby that he valued highly, and she never ran when things got tough. Bobby deserved a wife who not only truly loved him but would also be there for him just as he would always be there for her. April was that woman.

    As you can see above, Pam ruined or at the least, badly damaged that "love of her life." I don't know how Bobby could have ever thought of her the same after her betrayal in season 6. After Pam once again ran out on him, Bobby reacted pretty much the same way I'd expect any man to react the third time his wife bails on him. Whatever anyone might think of Bobby, he never bailed on Pam.

    That hypothetical scenario with Mark was a way where they could have had VP leave the show and then provide a valid reason in the storyline for how she could return, if that's what they really wanted to do. I think it's a little convoluted and contrived.

    Having Pam die would be cleaner, not so contrived as any of the other scenarios and would have provided great drama. I believe having Pam die in her car crash was the way to go, other people here seem to agree, and it's just a shame that the people running the show din't have the integrity to say: "This is the best possible way we can handle Victoria Principal leaving the show. It's the best way we can handle a bad situation. This is our vision for how the show needs to proceed and it's what we are sticking with.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020

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