Discussion in 'Dallas - The Original Series' started by Victoriafan3, Aug 8, 2018.
Well, yeah, that's what the family always said.
Allowing himself to become the puppet of Hagman’s tomfoolery post-86.
My only wish was Kristin went on to have JR's son, namely Christopher. Imagine the uproar if Jock and Miss Ellie discovered JR had been blackmailing his own brother and using his own son - which he did by the way until it was discovered Kristin had lost the baby. And GOD DAMN IT! Did the writers have to hastily write off Mary Crosby's version of Kristin? She was deliciously wicked.
I'd definitely say his worst deed was how awfully he treated Sue Ellen, especially before and after John Ross was born. I'd also say how much he troubled Bobby and Pam until they finally divorced - their problems weren't all his fault but he played a definite part. Connected to that, his manipulation of Katherine (Kristin, too, for that matter) was another crappy behaviour.
1. dropping his business cards next to the prone, hungover Wanda Frick at the Westerner Motel, leading to a bawling Sue Ellen having to sing 'People' before nearly getting raped by Brian Dennehy and then sued by a mortified Barbra Streisand!
(ha, forgot I'd already responded to his months ago!)
Sometimes a good post is worth repeating
To my way of thinking it's very easy to say what the worst thing JR ever did is: He committed adultery time and again and I could never condone that. Other things like mortgaging Southfork, that happened because Cliff Barnes had made it impossible for them to drill anywhere. Cliff had all their fields shut down, so JR mortgaging Southern was understandable given this extreme circumstances. But when it comes to cheating on your wife, I don;t think anything justifies that. I believe wedding vows are sacred and they need to be sacred in order to give marriage true meaning and value.
So, with that in mind I'll say this: Although it's not my style to be preachy and holier than thou, I'll just say that if any of you men feel the need to sleep with a woman other than your wife, at least have the decency to end your marriage with her by divorce first. Then and only then go ahead and purse the woman you want now. Just don't do it while you're still married. I think that's an absolutely disgusting thing to cheat on one's spouse. I don't know how any man or woman can cheat on their spouses and be able to sleep at night.
That's easily JR's worst deed as far as I'm concerned, and unfortunately he did it a lot! You all know JR is my favorite character on the show but I've never been able to condone cheating on your spouse. I take the vows "to cherish, to love, in good times and bad, in sickness and in health, for richer or for poorer" very, very seriously. There is no justification for that.
My favorite line about that comes from jack Nicholson in his role in the movie "Wolf." When he found out his wife cheated on him he confronted her on it and she gave the oh so typical reply: "He didn't mean anything to me." There's nothing original about that excuse, but Jack Nicholson's response was awesome. he said words to the effect of: Is that supposed to make me feel better? Is it supposed to provide comfort to me that our wedding vows to each other meant so little to you that you broke those vows for someone you don't even love?!?! Damn that's a great line!
Interesting. Jock had the respect and willingness to deal with each other with most Texas oilmen. He was highly regarded and he was the kind of guy who didn;t need contracts because his handshake was all people need to know he'd fulfill his part of the deal. So, what are the things Jock did that are worse than JR's worst deeds?
Do you think you could explain why you think that Jock could be worse than JR and despite it all, have so many more friends than JR and have the respect and friendship of so many of his peers?
I don't see the problem with that. Sue Ellen would use anyone and everyone she could get to abduct John Ross and take him away from his father, his grandparents, his uncles, to take him away from all that so that she could have him exclusively, she wanted full and complete custody of John Ross, depriving him of his daddy his grandparents and all the other family members who lived at Southfork. I call that downright selfish and also highly detrimental to her son's development from a toddler into a boy old enough to go to Kindergarten.
Exposing such a young impressionable child to Dusty and that relationship she had with him where it took on the appearance of living in sin was hardly a better environment for him than Southfork was where the couples who lived together their were actually married and were John Ross' real blood relatives, to do that to John Ross just because she liked having him around was an indication of just how short sighted and how thoughtless Sue Ellen could be. She was still married to JR and why? How could she justify to John Ross the fact that she moved in with Dusty while still married to John Ross' father? When he got older, some tough questions would be coming her way for that. Even JR, as notorious as he was for doing questionable things and sometimes downright unethical or even illegal things, never had John Ross live in the same house as a woman he was having an illicit affair with did he?
I see it differently. I see Bobby as the bad guy in this situation. he thought Christopher was JR's boy and Bobby seemingly had no qualms about taking his own brother's son, and stealing from Christopher the opportunity to go up being raised by his real father. JR was an excellent father to John Ross so I have no reason to believe he wouldn't have also been a very good father to Christopher. How do you take your own brother;s son away from him and still look at yourself in the mirror the next morning? How do you sleep at night knowing you're depriving your brother the opportunity know Christopher was his son and robbing him of the opportunity to raise his own son? That's what Bobby thought he was doing because he hadn't yet found out Christopher wasn't JR's son. For a man who claimed to hate lies and secrecy, I don't see how Bobby could be any deeper into lies and secrecy than with taking the baby he thought was his brother's son!
I wholeheartedly agree that JR was awful to Sue Ellen and that she was awful to him in retaliation. That's why I've always thought they depicted the two of them being married for so long and in two different marriages! I reached a limit where it just looked like they were showing the same old things again: The lies, the insults, the sarcasm, the emotional coldness -all of that coming from each of them - and so I wished they had had them get a divorce sooner than they did. I think they had that horribly dysfunctional marriage go on for far too long. It's not as if seeing two people married to each other and yet trying their best to hurt each other was just so wrong! It goes against the whole concept of marriage and frankly, I found it uncomfortable to watches much of the two of them trying to hurt each other. Maybe I'm an exception in this way but I don;t find watching two people who are married yet trying to hurt each other to be entertaining or even in good taste.
Do some of you enjoy watching married couple hurt each other so badly for so long? I'd be interested in finding out what they find appealing about watching a married couple inflict so much damage upon each other. I just don't see the appeal of it,but Id be interested in hearing from people who do find it appealing and why they find it appealing.
Because of the situation in the above paragraph I was very relieved to see Sue Ellen leave the show for good in season 11. Mrs. Gray may be a wonderful friend and a nice lady, but I didn't enjoy watching her get hurt by JR and I also didn't enjoy watching JR get hurt by Sue Ellen. It was the only time I was happy to see an original cast member leave. Finally an end to the constant sarcasm between the two of them! I did wonder though if she just retired on the money she made in Dallas, or if she went on to act in other roles and I just don't happen to have seen them.
I don't enjoy seeing abuse among couples.
I agree with you that after season 6 it became a repetitive cycle if SueEllen loves JR, JR cheats, SE finds out and falls off the wagon, they eventually make up, SE gets defensive anytime someone criticizes JR JR cheats, etc., etc., etc.
The fascination prior to that came from seeing SE gather strength, battle her demons, and stand up to JR. Also, seeing the layers of JR in that he loved power, but did have feelings for SE. After SE had her accident in season 6, JR speaks to her in her room. He seemed genuinely contrite for his role in this. Great acting and great chemistry between LH and LG.
Lots of rich men "have the respect and friendship of so many of his peers."
And Sam Culver's Uncle Jonas might have some opinions about what a stand-up guy Jock Ewing was... Even Jock himself admitted he used to railroad a lot of people in his youth,
In my opinion JR's worst deeds were:
1. Raping Holly and Laurel.
2. Stealing baby Lucy from Valene and threatening to have her killed if she came back to Dallas.(Which Val did anyway.)
3.Emotional abuse of SueEllen throughout their marriage.
4.Leaving Walt Dricoll in jail.
5.Pushing Cliff to attempt suicide.
Because it's fabulous drama J.R. and Sue Ellen were wicked to one another and anyone else would have walked away but because of their incredibly flawed characters, they didn't - or couldn't. There was also a sense of true love, wrapped up in unfortunate circumstance.
I think, one reason their relationship felt stale by the point J.R. had yet another affair with Kimberly Cryder was because of the dream season. J.R. and Sue Ellen endured so much character development in that season, their relationship was the best it had ever been because they were their best self, but then it was all written off in the name of a dream... so suddenly Sue Ellen's still an alcoholic, J.R.'s still a cheat and it was a disappointment (for me) after we had seen who they could have been.
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