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Just finished re-watching Dallas TNT

Discussion in 'Dallas TNT' started by jeffewing, Sep 11, 2017.

  1. stevew

    stevew Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 8 Years

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    I agree - from season 1 when she saw all the people who turned out to watch then disappeared she should have had people mining sites like this one to see what they’re saying:

    1) set change didn’t work - easy fix, though expensive, and how do you get the word out you fixed it to those who left

    2) more about the Ewing family than these others she created - somewhat easy fix, though JR wasn’t going to be easy with Larry Hagman’s health and she wanted to get paid for her characters, maybe create Cally’s son, reveal Ryland’s dad was Jeremy Wendell, Carmen was Teresa’s sister, things like that.

    3) original characters aren’t making sense - explain Cliff is mentally ill, along with Pamela and we already know Katherine is; have Bobby be more like Bobby, have him say to Chris, “I’m sorry, I just can’t accept Elena here, with you. She was engaged to your cousin. This ain’t right and you know it,” and “Your grandmother wanted me to teach you to love the land like she did, like a Southworth. That’s why she left you half. You know how much you meant to her and your Grandpa Clayton.”

    Things like that for “fixes,” but over all I think her concept was wrong. 1) she didn’t understand the original show and 2) she didn’t know what current audiences wanted (more original Dallas than the later melodrama crap it became I’m guessing).
     
  2. Miss Texas 1967

    Miss Texas 1967 Soap Chat Well-Known Member EXP: 5 Years

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    You've just reminded me of another thing in the DVD special features. I'm pretty sure it was on the pilot commentary but there was an entire spiel about how they'd spent time studying the old home layout and the real interior and imagined that for the present since Ann was the new mistress of Southfork and since she and Bobby had been married a while she had taken it upon herself to redecorate and knock a few walls down. Sure, sure, that's fine I guess, but switching the entire layout of the house was beyond bizarre and sort of makes me think they didn't actually look too closely at the original show even if they said they did. Why would anyone put Bobby's office open to the foyer where the dining room used to be? Then the opposite room that used to be the living room became the kitchen/dining room (I think, do I have that right?). Or having all the bedrooms appearing to be on the ground floor by the windows but in other scenes seeming to be upstairs.

    I haven't yet rewatched season 2 or 3 and the original show was by no means consistent with reality or even consistent in it's own universe at times, but I find the TNT show much harder to wrap my head around the layout than the original because it's firstly not that easy to follow the characters from one set to another (the beauty of the living room--->foyer--->dining room walk was lost) but also because it was different to what had already been established years ago and therefore what your brain expects when watching a scene taking place in whatever room at Southfork.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
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  3. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Mega Star EXP: 3 Years

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    There is something to be said for keeping the familiar. As if TNT Dallas wasn't jarring enough with retconned characters we also had to deal with the new interior of Southfork. It was sensory overload.
     
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  4. xab

    xab Soap Chat Active Member

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    I only rewatched some episodes from season 2. I liked the JR/ John Ross relationship and father and son double crossing each other in season 1. But like everybody here Rebecca was no jaw dropping twist to me, it was obvious she was Cliff's daughter ( Rebecca... seriously...?) Others plots were so déjà vu that I didn't care... Let alone the lack of Sue Ellen screen time and the endless collection of continuity inconsistencies... And on top of the cake: the good old Ramos family... A :censer: RAMOS FAMILY from nowhere!! for God's sake!!

    Season 2 tasted Dallas a bit more. A Canada Dry taste I would say... Thanks to the cameos, the Pam resolution and JR's masterpiece ( Larry saved the day once again, for the last time... ) Afton was Sue Ellen's nemesis again ( like season 5, 6, 7, 8 never happened...) Valene and Sue Ellen rewrited version of a JR / Valene confrotation felt forced... I mean how many episodes did the ladies share in the original? 2? 3? Maybe 4?
    Season 3 is no Dallas. Period. And a second SF fire and a drunk Sue Ellen can't change that.
    About the characters: sorry but Bobby's always been a jerk... Ageing just does not help...
    As for this Cliff B. straight from Arkham asylum... Well... Between 1991 and 2012 there's a big plot hole... A lot can happen within 21 years... Look how many things occured between 1978 and 1991... Sue Ellen changed from A to Z during the original run... And honestly so did Cliff... I just wish we had had something to fill the void...
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
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  5. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Enthusiast EXP: 12 Years

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    I liked Larry Hagman's response to being asked about the new set.. He didn't regard the changes to the set as even being an issue. He said: "I don't think there was ever a time when the set stole the show."

    He was a jerk at times to some people. There were some times when he got pretty high handed about his place in Ewing Oil. I loved Jock's reaction to him in the "Real power is something you take" speech. Bobby also was a very good son and brother at other times. He treated Pam like gold. In TNT he seemed to have lost a lot of his good qualities, while amplifying the aspects of the self-righteous, high handed, bully. I didn't like that. Then to really cap it off they had Bobby cave in to Elena's extortion. If they had wanted Bobby to turn into someone as aggressive and vindictive as they did, why not have him be that way to Elena too? I'd have had him tell her that her problem wasn't any of his doing; her problem was with JR. She wanted revenge on a dead man. Well, a lot of people did. Stand in line.

    It just added insult to injury when after Elena extorted money and land from Bobby, Christopher decided Elena was his ideal woman and fell in love with her. What?!?! She was an extortionist and had also been cooperating with the man who killed his wife's babies! Bobby needed to give Christopher a serious reality check then but didn't.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
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  6. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Mega Star EXP: 3 Years

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    That might be but the interior layout of Lorimar Southfork created the best drama. Whether the characters were drifting from the living room, through to the foyer, ascending/descending the infamous staircase or onto the dining room, this was a perfect blend of used space. This of course was all founded on 4800 Park Lane, Dallas.

    Dallas.jpg
    My only wish was the TNT mob stuck with this layout with an updated look reflecting the Ewing millions.
     
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  7. Miss Texas 1967

    Miss Texas 1967 Soap Chat Well-Known Member EXP: 5 Years

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    I actually think as far as the foyer and staircase goes they did reasonably well, but the flow was ruined by the switching around of rooms. I just quickly pulled these pics off the internet so I'm sure there are better ones, but now I'm even more confused about whether Bobby's office is opposite the new living room because it looks to be a door to the outside here in the pilot but surely that's not the front door as the front door would be to the right of the picture, at the foot of the stairs. I think I've confused myself as much as the pictures confuse me lol

    There's an informative article on UD about the set, it says a lot of what was said in the commentary about the changes etc. http://www.ultimatedallas.com/dallasnews/2012/04/19/forkies-tnt-dallas-set-visit/

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
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  8. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Mega Star EXP: 3 Years

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    The image showing the open fire looks so sterile...as if no one lives there. It reminds of exhibition homes. And please don't remind me of that horrid paint by numbers orchestrating as modern art of Jock and Miss Ellie. :eek:
     
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  9. stevew

    stevew Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 8 Years

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    I think if they had just put the dinning room where it was originally and put back the living room they could have gone with a more open back room. Though the fire place should have been in middle of two glass doors to fit the outside. It would have felt more like home to me. And while the set isn’t the most important thing it does establish the feeling of being home. There also needed to be a home office of some sort, just no where it was so I guess one could say Bobby replaced the dinning room with his study and they no longer used a formal dinning room or place the study somewhere else. I was also ok with JR’s down stairs bedroom. Another problem is Bobby becomes more a hypocrite in his call to keep things the same at Southfork (i.e. no drilling and John Ross wanting a grand addition) while he totally changed what ever he wanted.
     
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  10. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Enthusiast EXP: 12 Years

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    I don't know where you got that picture. Is that a picture of the actual ranch in Texas as it appears now? I never saw it look that way in Dallas.

    I liked the way their wealth was understated, especially in the early seasons. They were family that didn't feel the need to show off how rich they were, and for Jock and Ellie, who had started off in life poor with strong blue collar work ethic values it fit perfectly. I liked the look of Southfork and especially the overall look of the show in the first full season. It was all filmed in Texas then and it showed. That was the most authentic look the show ever had. They went on to make the show look more glossy and more slick and it took away from the unique, rugged Texan look they used to have.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
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  11. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Mega Star EXP: 3 Years

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    This is 4800 Park Lane, Dallas as it stands today after major renovations in 2003. The home was originally used to film the interior shots for the mini series and Dallas: War of the Ewings.
     
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  12. Via The Void

    Via The Void Soap Chat Well-Known Member EXP: 3 Years

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    It beggars belief why Cidre couldn't have used that house again for the Southfork interiors.

    Those interiors are beautiful & instantly recognisable as Southfork. They should've used them again for the Cyntax Dallas. :(
     
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  13. Miss Texas 1967

    Miss Texas 1967 Soap Chat Well-Known Member EXP: 5 Years

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    Took a little break between season 1 and season 2 rewatch but I've just finished the season 2 rewatch and my thoughts are as follows:

    I thought this season was better than season 1. I can't remember if that was the consensus originally (just that season 3 goes off the rails) but overall I felt like the story flowed better and the characters had more depth to them in season 2. That's not to say the season was absolutely fantastic though, because it wasn't. The pacing in the JR's masterpiece plot was good in my opinion, but pacing in other things was all off. Ann's trial, the hostage situation and Sue Ellen’s campaign for governor ending come to mind as plots that occurred at great speed and could have benefited from a little more time in development and a slower development at that. I also thought the first half of the season was weaker than the second half, but that may have something to do with the first half of the season having the splintered family while the second half shows them all coming together for a common cause.

    I’ll go character by character for a quick summary of thoughts. I may forget a few people.

    Let’s start with Elena, because I still don’t have much time for her. I thought she was less controversial this season and more just annoying. I understand that her main issue was being caught between loyalties but I just don’t care for her in whichever side she took. She was boring with her own projects, boring with her family and boring with Christopher, I could just do without her and that’s not good for the character.

    On the other hand there’s Pamela Rebecca, I once again found myself warming to her in a way I hadn’t before the rewatch. She had split loyalties just like Elena did but in this case I found the character palatable rather than one that left a bad taste in my mouth. I was glad to leave the Christopher/Pambecca stuff behind for a while but when it did come back with the rig accident and later miscarriage I didn't mind returning to it. I found it interesting to watch her relationship with Cliff and Frank and even more so with John Ross too. I wish we’d seen more scenes between her and Afton but then again it’s TNT Dallas, none of the original actor guest stars had particularly deep scenes.

    Christopher. The racing car stuff was boring as heck, I can’t believe they dedicated that much screen time to it, but the Pam stuff and the methane business stuff wasn’t bad. The Christopher/Elena relationship was just so bland but I also sort of find the Bobby/Christopher relationship bland in comparison to Bobby/John Ross and John Ross/Sue Ellen/JR. I think it’s a problem with the way Christopher is written, when you have John Ross character and Josh Henderson’s acting, Christopher’s tantrums and problems need to be just as well acted and interesting to hold attention.

    Ann. Once again I’m really warming to her in the rewatch. As is well accepted, the shooting of Harris and subsequent trial were not exactly realistic but outside of that I liked her a lot. The only thing I didn't like was her dismissing Sue Ellen’s concerns about Emma. Sue Ellen did have a drink the night she saw Emma in the bar but she still made a completely valid point about the 20 years of Emma’s life that she missed.

    Harris. I dislike this man so much, but we’re not supposed to like him, so good job lol.

    Judith. Ditto.

    Sue Ellen. I’m disappointed but unsurprised that the writers had to scrap the governor plot. It was sad to see Sue Ellen go from having something of her own to sort of floating between other stories. I very much enjoyed that she had a bigger presence this season though.

    JR. I loved the more in control JR and that we’d moved on from the rest home plot of last season. The real life situation was very sad and is still sad, but I think the death of Larry Hagman helped the show in getting the writers back to scramble and rewrite the story into something which in my opinion, flowed better than what had come before.

    Emma. I go back and forth on Emma. I don’t dislike her as much as I do Elena, but I don’t like her either. I think I would have liked Emma more had she not involved herself with John Ross. That’s a criticism of John Ross too. I wish he would have done differently than JR when it came to being with multiple women in varying degrees of seriousness.

    Bobby. I liked him better this season but that may have been because he was under JR’s direction for half of it.

    Nice to see more of Cliff this season too. I get the feeling Ken was really enjoying playing Cliff again.

    Not related to a character but the production. The office scenes are filmed in a studio and the cityscape is greenscreened in, yes? I say that because it looks fake and it distracted me. If it’s real then I don’t know what to say other than it was distracting.

    Random thoughts on plot points.

    Why doesn’t Emma have a British accent if she was raised there and not in the US?

    I literally forgot that Miss Ellie supposedly cut JR out of her will. JR was taught to be the way he was by his father, her husband, the man she loved. I find this decision hard to swallow.

    Why the heck would Val think Sue Ellen wants Gary? Even Gary mentioned in this show that they had barely gotten along in the old days.

    Rebecca Wentworth listed her former husband as “Digger Barnes” in her will? Digger was a nickname.

    Firstly I'm annoyed that Katherine Wentworth was killed off in a throwaway line, but secondly, the idea that she left her earrings to Cliff makes me laugh.

    As for the DVD, I have thoughts here too. The special features were improved from the previous season but still managed to include a lot of filler. The Blood is Thicker than Oil and Memories of Larry Hagman segments were a reasonable length and the PaleyFest interview was interesting and funny in parts. Once again though the fashion bit was so short it was almost pointless (and the intro scene was on the final disc for some reason) and the interview with Larry Hagman was very short and was cut as if there was a much longer interview to view but they'd only included a little bit of it for some reason. Regarding the deleted scenes, some were rightfully deleted as they didn't add anything, but others seemed like they would have fit in the episode. There’s a deleted scene with the real Rebecca Sutter switching from Christopher to John Ross’ side and it’s not that we necessarily needed to see it, but it did help support the scene where it’s revealed she had changed sides.

    I didn't watch the extended cut of JR's Masterpiece, only the commentary on the extended cut (which I only noticed one extra scene in, but there may have been more that I missed because I was listening to the commentary), but the commentary itself was a little strange. Firstly, I don't know what CC is like as a person but her tone always makes her sound as if she couldn't care less about the show even when she's talking it up. She starts off the episode talking about the filming location and not the serious, emotional plot you're expecting her to talk about. As for the other showrunner doing the commentary, he says a line which sort of surprised me, he said something along the lines of "working on the show is like working on a historical document, you feel a sense of pride and also a sense of obligation and responsibility to all these fans around the world that you better get this right. We look at each other all the time and say we have to get this right". I love this sentiment, but I don't think they were the right people to look at each other and say for sure yes we've got it right, not when they're bouncing their own ideas off each other and ignoring the actual history of the show (collective viewing, glaring errors etc.) I also found in the commentary the discussion about how it came to getting Linda/Sue Ellen to drink again to be sort of cringeworthy. The decision was made, Linda was told and CC disappeared when it came to filming. Also CC didn’t know JR was in the army, I’m not surprised at all.

    On to season 3...
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
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  14. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Mega Star EXP: 3 Years

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    They appear to have the right sentiment but that certainly didn't translate to the small screen. I've had temptations in re-watching TNT Dallas myself but reading your review sums up my feelings towards it...best to leave sleeping dogs lie.

    I'll continue to re-watch the best years of Dallas...right up until Bobby flat-lines.
     
  15. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Mega Star EXP: 3 Years

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    An unforgivable act and if given the opportunity to say it to someones face.....

     
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  16. Miss Texas 1967

    Miss Texas 1967 Soap Chat Well-Known Member EXP: 5 Years

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    I've finally finished my rewatch. It took far longer than I expected to get through 15 episodes but at last I've finally finished my rewatch.

    Let's start by quoting Linda Gray herself (regarding JR's daughter):
    "‘I remember thinking ‘Oh, my, god, there are already so many people here!’ but that was her idea which could have been interesting, ‘I think the fans already were confused. There were too many people and too many plots and they didn’t quite know what was going on, so I don’t know how that would have worked.'" (https://metro.co.uk/2014/12/12/excl...there-were-too-many-people-and-plots-4984198/)

    Overall, I think this season mostly suffered from being removed from the oil/energy business and when it did find business stuff to focus on it was all very high level (in the sense that it was always about percentages and control of the company rather than the work the company was doing. They were so focused on who was going to lead that they lost focus on what and where they were actually leading. I don't know how anyone had any directions to follow at a department level with the way they carried on at the very top). I also think the show suffered from the introduction of the entire cartel plot which until the end had nothing to do with the Ewings. Obviously we had plots in the original show that weren't about the Ewings, things like following Cliff's time at Barnes-Wentworth or the Mandy/Bruce stuff but they weren't that far removed from being able to be related to the Ewings. The Ewings are the main characters of the show, they're the constant, we follow their lives and the people that come and go in relation to them. No one wanted to see more scenes with Nicholas/Elena/Luis etc. but we got them, plenty of them. It's not the specific characters (or it is, but there's a but there) it's that any plot that isn't that strongly connected to the main family makes it difficult to really care. I didn't care when Laurel Ellis or Jory Taylor had their own plots in the original show either and they were connected to main characters, but not enough to really be interesting. It was clear by this season that the writers wanted to write what they wanted but to get it to air they had to call it Dallas, so they did. The show wasn't grounded in Ewing life and it suffered because of that.

    Let's move to characters.

    Elena - Bobby said it himself, there was a better way to go about getting back her father's stolen land. Don't get me started on what rubbish this all was in the context of the history we have at our fingertips that tells me about the time JR supposedly stole Papa Ramos' land was when he was working on setting Cliff up in season 5. It's possible JR had a finger in a lot of different pies, but the way they just pretend we can't look back at actual happenings in the characters lives at the time they pretend things happened is just annoying. Back to Elena though, she's so bland. I just can't with her. I understand why she was angry and why she would want to get back at the Ewings, but she's also so disloyal to them it's not even funny. I wouldn't have been upset at all if Elena had died in that explosion along with Christopher.

    [​IMG]

    Pamela Rebecca - she's fine but I didn't like her as much this season, I can't say why necessarily. I find it hard to keep up with where she is emotionally. I get it, she's supposed to be complex and conflicted, but she goes between being angry with John Ross to angry with Cliff to an emotional wreck and all the way back, it's hard to keep up. I did like her negotiating in business, I like when she's capable, maybe I just wish she was more consistent? Would have been nice to see her interact more with Afton too. I think it's terrible that we left the show with Cliff in jail as well.

    Ann - again I like Ann so much more than I remember liking her. I can sort of see why she softened towards Harris at times but I can't get behind any romantic relationship between the two of them. It's one thing to forgive him and see a better side of who he is now and it's another to forget that he was an absolute monster to her and it wasn't all Judith's fault.

    Judith - she's so over the top and it's grating after a while. I get they wanted the eccentric powerful woman character but ugh enough with Judith already. Mama like :tv:

    Emma - for once I agreed with her, she might have been better off with Drew. Outside of the kidnapping I just didn't like Emma at all, but I'm not sure we were supposed to like Emma.

    Sue Ellen - give me more Sue Ellen, please. Once again I really wanted to know what was happening with her and got so little. I didn't like that she started drinking again but I did understand it and could appreciate that we didn't get another one of those dream season drunk sequences this time, but I'd have loved for Sue Ellen to have developed further coping skills in the decades since her addiction started.

    John Ross - again Josh Henderson portrays John Ross very well, he's vulnerable when he needs to be but he's mostly cocky and it fits. I prefer John Ross to Christopher, but who doesn't? I have to reiterate again that I wish we'd seen different with his personal relationships though. I wish we'd gotten John Ross and Pamela Rebecca being the power couple who revelled in their joint efforts, if they were bad and unethical at least they did it together, that sort of thing.

    Bobby - there's a scene where Bobby says something along the lines of JR never got the better of him, which just isn't true, but ok... I don't overly dislike Bobby in this show, I guess I just see him as a bit different to who he was in the original and sometimes it leaves you wondering who he is and what he stands for. JR's memory weighing on Bobby could have been more, but I guess it's a balance that takes some trial and error to get right without it being too much or too little.

    Christopher - so bland and almost irrelevant. I appreciate that they tried to give him a plot with Heather (played by AnnaLynne McCord from 90210 which was somewhat distrating but that's not the show's fault) but the pained ex-husband, sweet kid, nice farm girl plot was just too brief and not interesting enough to have an emotional impact. Things happened quickly and ended quickly and nothing came of it so it might as well not have happened.

    A few random thoughts.

    Was there a Microsoft sponsor deal or were Windows phones just widely used in 2014? I've sort of forgotten. I only mention it because they focus on the Surface tablets and Windows phones a reasonable amount but then sometimes characters will have iPhones so it's hard to tell.

    There was a Miller Lite sponsorship randomly placed which made me laugh. Who says things this way in real life? lol

    [​IMG]

    Hunter and Tracey McKay reappearing was strange. It was like the writers heard that people wanted to see more of the original characters but then pulled a random name out of a hat. No one was asking for the McKays, they were asking for an update on Ray/Lucy/Lucas/Katherine or even more Afton etc.

    At the beginning of the show John Ross is talking about remodelling Southfork and Bobby has a real problem with it yet supposedly Ann moved walls around and redecorated the house until it was almost unrecognisable but that wasn't a problem. John Ross was being cocky and rubbing in his plans, but Bobby was being silly here.

    Unless they were taking about Cally's child with JR, the idea of bringing JR's daughter in when we already have two existing other children is just stupid. You were given characters with backstories, use them if you want to go there. It would have been far more interesting to see Lucas in my opinion, but I imagine they didn't even know Lucas existed.

    On the DVD they put episodes 14 and 15 together as 1 episode because they aired together on TV however it seems so lazy to me that they left the opening credits in the middle of the episode where it goes from episode 14 to episode 15. It wouldn't have been very difficult to remove the credit sequence and just keep the scenes flowing together.

    The DVD special features were incredibly poor this time around, it's deleted scenes and that's it. There were some decent ones (which are escaping me at the moment) but no commentary or featurettes? I imagine the cancellation of the show meant there was no care put into the DVD but it's disappointing.

    It'll be a few years before I get these DVDs back out again. In the meantime I'm rewatching the original show and it's just so good, I can't wait to keep going with that,
     
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  17. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Mega Star EXP: 3 Years

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    A good observation and since you are watching Lorimar Dallas you'll quickly come to realize how clever those writers were in keeping the focus on the Ewing family. In fact on closer inspection you will note it's rare to watch a scene without a Ewing in it and if not there certainly was a Barnes.

    This is where TNT Dallas failed spectacularly. At times too much attention was focused on those annoying extras like the Ramos family, the Mexican characters and yes even the Ryland family.

    Original Dallas was good at using secondary characters to enhance the Ewing story...TNT Dallas allowed secondary characters to overshadow the Ewing family to the point they became mute.
     
  18. TJames03

    TJames03 Soap Chat TV Fanatic EXP: 10 Years

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    Once the mystery of what happened to Pam was over, so was my viewership. CC blew so many opportunities with the TNT version.....
     
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  19. tommie

    tommie Soap Chat Mega Star EXP: 3 Years

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    Absolutely. Season 3 should've been about them wrecking hell left and right as a couple, with possibly John Ross cheating towards the end of season 3 leading into a season 4 of Ewing vs Barnes. I think in general the writing around this time was more about "gotcha" moments (a problem not restricted just to NuDallas mind you - I'd call it the Scandal-effect) and wanted desperately to show that John Ross was "just like his daddy" by the revealing he was sleeping with Emma at the end of season 2. John Ross and Pambecca obviously weren't built for a long-term happy relationship, but a season as a gruesome twosome would've been good.
     
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  20. Seaviewer

    Seaviewer Soap Chat Enthusiast EXP: 18 Years

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    Another minority opinion but I liked the original Tracy (TNT Dallas couldn't even get the spelling right). I thought she was the best of Bobby's post-Pam loves. I'm not against recasts in principle but since nothing was going to come of it there was ultimately no point in this case. Especially when all the original actors for the characters you list were ready and willing to appear.
     
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