Leaving Neverland

Discussion in 'Documentaries' started by Richard Channing, Mar 3, 2019.

  1. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson drilling for soap

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    If you SHOUT it like that the only thing I can think of is
     
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  2. Justine

    Justine Soap Chat Fan

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    The documentary made me feel physically sick. He really groomed the world.
     
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  3. Alexis

    Alexis Soap Chat Champion

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    Because there's something about you baby
    That makes me want to give it to you
    I swear there's something about you baby
    Just promise me, whatever we say
    Whatever we do to each other
    For now we take a vow to just
    Keep it in the closet
     
  4. TJames03

    TJames03 Soap Chat Addict

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    ???
     
  5. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    People's actions always have premeditation in them, but not in the simplistic "now I set out to do this" mode. When I have talked to people who fell in love later in life than early 20s, they usually report that while they did not start desperately going "now I need to find a partner for my life" they had, sometimes gradually and sometimes more rapidly, changed their mindset about the issue and opened themselves up to the possibility both mentally and emotionally. I think those who engage in transgressive acts first start tearing down the boundaries around these acts--or in the case of a repeated pattern and cycle of the abused becoming a future abuser, have them taken down. But the footwork is there, I believe.

    Of course, adulthood is a very fluid concept--I find strict definitions (statutory rape three months before someone's birthday, accepted a day after) ridiculous. I remember myself very well when I was a 12-year old boy, and if someone I found sexy had approached me then, it absolutely would not have been abuse or manipulation. But that's because I know what my own state of mind was. If somebody had approached me, would he be deemed sick? Judging in general, I'd say yes. Speaking of my particular case, and assuming I had let him known I was open to that, I'd say no. But what 12 year old is so bold?

    Yet the problem with MJ is that he was an out of this world mega icon approaching these children (and their families) in a completely different context: enter my universe of music, and Neverland, and theme park on the premises, and the whole world adoring me. Even if there was no sexual abuse, I don't know how that could ever be a real child-adult friendship because the adult was not real: he was a projection of multiple apparatus.
     
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  6. TJames03

    TJames03 Soap Chat Addict

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    The parents should have been arrested, too. No one could be that stupid......
     
  7. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I stumbled across this video. I think it might have been edited by a fan who wants to defend MJ but it is really well put together:

     
  8. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    There are stories on the Internet that Paris has tried to commit suicide. So this is affecting more than just Michael's reputation. :(
     
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  9. Ome

    Ome Admin

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    Of course, it's affecting more than MJ, Paedophilia has that effect. It destroys families of the victims as well as the abusers.
     
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  10. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    Of course it does. I just don't believe he's guilty is all and mentioned Paris because he was her father.
     
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  11. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I am glad that you also care about his kids @Sarah I am concerned for them too. I don't think MJ abused his kids and it is possible he changed after he became a father. But it seems like he was involved with the men in the documentary. :( Have you even watched the whole thing?
     
  12. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson drilling for soap

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    And in other stories on the internet she denies it.
     
  13. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    I believe he knew them @Karin Schill and knew them on a personal level but I don’t believe he abused them. I have watched the documentary when it was shown in Ireland a couple of weeks ago and I don’t believe either man - something about them doesn’t ring true to me. I’m sorry.
     
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  14. TJames03

    TJames03 Soap Chat Addict

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    But everyone that believes in his innocence glosses over the children's mannequins, the "slumber" parties, etc.
     
  15. pete lashmar

    pete lashmar Soap Chat Fan

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    He had a home that was turned into a theme park and dedicated it to hoards of children. Thousands in fact, from all walks of life, with all kinds of disabilities and he made them happy and forget their problems and fears.

    And out of all those thousands there have been a number of accusations, a number you can count on 1 hand - 1 of which never went to criminal trial because the accuser's family accepted 23m dollars and ran. The 2nd & 3rd of which went to trial and Jackson was cleared on every single charge. The 4th and 5th, who have proclaimed Jackson's innocence and who have huge financial problems suddenly remember he molested them 30 years ago and remember every single solitary fact of the abuse, but still didn't realise it was abuse - even when one of them testified in court, under oath in his 20's.

    Nah, don't buy it for a second.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
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  16. pete lashmar

    pete lashmar Soap Chat Fan

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    double post.
     
  17. Ome

    Ome Admin

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    Suddenly remembered?


    I thought you had watched the documentary.
     
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  18. pete lashmar

    pete lashmar Soap Chat Fan

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    Please don't be pedantic about this, he suddenly remembered in 2013 after not getting a job at Cirque de Soliel and was heavily in debt.
     
  19. Ome

    Ome Admin

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    I'm not being pedantic.


    If you had watched the documentary (which I thought you had) then you would know they didn't 'suddenly' remember what happened. They knew about the sex they had with MJ, only they didn't believe it was abuse.
     
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  20. pete lashmar

    pete lashmar Soap Chat Fan

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    Rubbish, absolute rubbish. He was in a 10 year relationship with Brandi Jackson, had numerous affairs with women and broke up Britney & Justin and and this was all before he testified FOR Jackson in 2005 - he knew what sex was therefore he knew what abuse was. You don't get to 23 years old and have no idea if someone abused you if you're out having sex with anyone you can - and he seemed to do just that.

    Oh, but all that WASN'T in the documentary was it....silly me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019

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