Leaving Neverland

Discussion in 'Documentaries' started by Richard Channing, Mar 3, 2019.

  1. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    What about innocent until proven guilty??? :( I think this is really sad. I don't feel his memory should be completely erased like this and although not the reason stated, it seems like pretty coincidental timing.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-47468074

    A statue of Michael Jackson has been removed from the National Football Museum in Manchester.

    Its removal comes as sexual abuse allegations against the singer are detailed in a new documentary film.

    The statue was commissioned by Fulham's then chairman Mohammed Al Fayed following Jackson's death in June 2009.

    The National Football Museum (NFM) said the statue had been taken off display as part of "ongoing plans" to "better represent" football's stories.

    Two men, James Safechuck and Wade Robson, allege in the Channel 4 documentary, Leaving Neverland, that they were sexually abused by the superstar.


    There have been reports of radio stations dropping Jackson's music from their playlists, while some fans on social media have said they are boycotting the star.

    An NFM spokesperson said: "Plans have been under way for a number of months to remove the Michael Jackson statue from display as part of our ongoing plans to better represent the stories we want to tell about football.

    "As a result of this, the statue has now been removed."

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
  2. Alexis

    Alexis Soap Chat Warrior

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    I've said it before but I mean... Sure, but O.J. Simpson.
     
  3. Alexis

    Alexis Soap Chat Warrior

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    Maybe they removed it because it was a shockingly bad statue.
     
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  4. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    Why did they put that statue there in the first place? MJ and UK football -> because? because?
    Or was it to replace the OJ statue, LOL
     
  5. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    Oh ha ha :p
     
  6. Angela Channing

    Angela Channing World Cup of Soaps Moderator

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    The 2 cases aren't comparable. The OJ prosecution failed because the main police witness was shown to have lied under oath and he refused to deny that he had planted evidence. The continuity and integrity of the forensic evidence was compromised and so was unreliable. There were no such problems with the Michael Jackson prosecution which was thorough and well presented to the jury. There just wasn't the evidence there for the jury to find Michael Jackson guilty.
     
  7. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    The whole story behind the "Living With Michael Jackson" documentary is also fascinating.
    It's such a Russian Doll situation.
     
  8. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

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    Well, there is SURVIVING R KELLY.
     
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  9. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    OK so I watched the first part and my first impressions are that I didn't believe half of what came out of those guys mouths. I believe they were friends with Michael, but I don't believe the sexual abuse. I just don't.

    I will report back after I watch the second one.
     
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  10. Alexis

    Alexis Soap Chat Warrior

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    I watched last night and I have to say that to me at least it sounds very convincing. You can hear the hurt and torment when the guys speak. Also there are just things that make no sense. Why did Michael need to have 5, 6, or 7 year old boys accompany him when he was on tour. Flying the kids and their family with him at great expense? Why was it that the sleeping arrangements invariably ended up with the child sleeping with him and the parents in another room? Why was it that the longer it went on the further away in the hotel the parents room was.

    Wade Robson at 7 years old was alone at Neverland with Michael for 5 whole days. WTF? Michael had the boys at his Neverland Ranch, at the Jackson family home, and at Jackson's Condo in LA. Jackson few these kids all over the globe with him. Showered them with expensive gifts and jewellery. He would even secretly stay at the boys family homes.

    What has been shown so far, paints Michael as a master manipulator. Someone who would go to great lengths to get what he wanted. It's interesting and as I have said, convincing. Both stories are very similar, and very text book.

    I don't see why people find it so hard to believe. The Jackson kids themselves were abused and came from a dysfunctional family. People bring up the fact that Macauley Culkin has never accused Michael. Nobody mentions Macauley turning to drugs in a big way as a young man.

    I think people should watch the documentary.
     
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  11. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    I appreciate your opinion Belfast- buddy but I didn't hear any hurt or torment in either of their voices.

    I had an interesting conversation with someone today who believes that Michael took the company of young children because he never had a childhood himself. But I'm sure that's been heavily discussed already. He has always always been known as the Peter Pan of Pop.

    I'm just not buying any of it. Time will tell I guess, but I am finding it pretty devastating that his reputation could end up being completely destroyed - with no one willing to play his music.

    I also think it's a load of horse manure that he ended up with the Thriller jacket or Indiana Jones' ACTUAL whip, but that's a different story.

    I just do not believe he abused those boys. I really don't. And I'm also really sorry if that makes me 'bad' (pardon the pun) because I don't believe it.
     
  12. Alexis

    Alexis Soap Chat Warrior

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    I just can not understand his desire as a fully grown man to sleep in the bed of little children, notably, little boys. It just does not compute. That is not normal. Only an abuser would choose to do that time and time again. Anyone with any sense wouldn't even want to be in that situation for fear of it being implicated as something else. But that's what he routinely did.

    Why was his bedroom at Neverland, through a chamber of closed doors? Why was there a bell that triggered the first door? To warn that someone was approaching. Why was it that he'd sleep with the kids in his room, in a bed inside a closet?

    I'm sorry but the documentary just left a bad feeling in me. Besides the details of the alleged abuse which was horrible in itself. When I learned about the lengths that he would go to to have those boys with him no matter where in the world he was. Like for very long periods of time. Around 6 months, having a child with him. And that there were cycles, with the boys. They would be there for a time then they would be replaced with a new favourite.

    It's pretty compelling stuff. When you look at abusers like Jimmy Saville and even Bill Cosby you see what they do. Michael had unlimited resources and power.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
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  13. Grant Jennings

    Grant Jennings Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    I found Robson and Safechuck to be credible; I believe they were both traumatized by being molested by Jackson. I understand why they would lie to defend Jackson in the past; they were much younger and had been intimidated. They loved Jackson just as a child may still love a parent who abused them. Jackson could afford the best attorneys who would steamroll any accusers. Victims of abuse often feel that they share responsibility for what happened; those feelings of guilt could have prevented Robson and Safechuck from admitting the truth sooner. That they would tell their stories now, when they are more mature and have sons of their own makes absolute sense to me.

    Why don't we ever hear of Jackson hosting little girls at Neverland? Don't tell me it's because it would have been "inappropriate, how could that be an less appropriate than sharing a bed with a seven year old boy. Jackson had a "type", the boys he hosted were within the same age range and many shared a physical resemblance. The fact that some of the boys he hosted claim they were never molested is an awfully weak defense; I'm sure John Dillinger didn't rob every bank he set foot in. I can understand why Jackson might have been more cautious about his behavior with celebrity children like Macauley Culkin or Cory Feldman; as celebrities they already had a public platform and might have been more sympathetic than a non-celebrity accuser.

    Much of Jackson's behavior that isn't disputed would be considered "creepy" at least or more likely "disgusting" if he weren't a talented and much beloved celebrity. I can think of no other reason why people would see this thick, dark cloud of smoke and still insist there is no fire.
     
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  14. Alexis

    Alexis Soap Chat Warrior

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    Also this defence that Michael was a big kid himself and that's why he preferred the company of young boys is bullshit. He wasn't a big kid himself. He was mentally a grown man. He didn't have learning difficulties, he didn't have a younger mental age. He was a very bright and intelligent person. He created the Peter Pan image and the Neverland idea as way to get what he wanted and not be questioned.

    As Grant Jennings has said, why didn't he have a little girl companion. Why was it only little boys, usually little blonde boys? Because he had a type, a definite type.
     
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  15. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    And that's the part with him, or with R. Kelly, that I don't get. What does their music have to do with it?
     
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  16. Alexis

    Alexis Soap Chat Warrior

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    Even if he was an abuser I will still enjoy his music. It's natural to appreciate great art. Didn't Picasso have a thing for young girls? I mean Rosemary's Baby is one of my favourite films ever and Polanski was child abuser. Talented people can do bad things.
     
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  17. TJames03

    TJames03 Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    Now radio stations in the US have followed suit RE: banning his music. That would kill him more than anything!!!
     
  18. Payton Cross

    Payton Cross Soap Chat Addict

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    Tonight, the documentary is broadcast on the Dutch Tv in four parts, I do not know if I really want to watch it, because if I would look at it then it means to me that I doubt Micheal Jackson's innocence, but on the other hand I am also very curious to look at it. But if I would ban Michael's music from my house? No, I think I would not do that too soon, because his music is pop history and no one can ignore it, unless he is banned everywhere.
     
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  19. Alexis

    Alexis Soap Chat Warrior

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    I still have to watch the second episode tonight. I have been wondering if anyone else will come forward now that these two have said their piece.
     
  20. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    Why always this mass hysteria? It's a documentary, not a trial.

    I'm not sure how to feel about all these victims who were way too young to hang out with adult celebrities.
    And their parents approved. They loved the attention, took the presents, holidays and whatnot.
    That doesn't justify the abuse, it never does, but it seems to me that they didn't make much effort to get away from this allegedly dangerous person.

    When I think of victims I think of domestic abuse (or another person in the family) and all those poor childen who were kidnapped and murdered by evil psychopaths.
    Being all over some celebrity and living the high life is not a very victim-y situation.
    Take it like a man and stop bitching.

    I am NOT going to watch this trashumentary.
     

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