Leaving Neverland

Discussion in 'Documentaries' started by Richard Channing, Mar 3, 2019.

  1. Alexis

    Alexis Soap Chat Champion

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    Really? So abuse only happens in broken homes? It's only a creepy uncle? That's bull crap. People who systematically abuse children go to great lengths to be in a position to be able to work with children. To work in heath care, be teachers, etc. Jackson was like the richest pop star in the world. He created an illusion that he was this Peter Pan saviour for little children. In order that he could have a constant stream of kiddies at his house. How in the world do people not see that as extremely creepy. Yes the parents were stupid, but they were seduced by Jackson. The promise that their child would be a superstar. That Jackson would help guide careers. The expensive holidays and gifts, all a distraction to keep that child close.

    Take it like a man and stop bitching....

    These boys were 7 and 10 years old when they claim they were abused. They couldn't take it like a man.
     
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  2. Alexis

    Alexis Soap Chat Champion

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    Also at the time the abuse allegedly occurred, Jackson had yet to be tried the first time for abuse allegations. Nobody suspected.
     
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  3. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson drilling for soap

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    Well, they could look like the perfect family.
    That's true, unfortunately. But in the case of MJ it's not work related. They didn't have to be there.
    That itself is not a crime. Maybe he really thought he was that person, I have no idea.
    Being 10 years old doesn't mean you're brainless. When it feels very wrong it feels very wrong. Even if it's Michael Jackson.
    As for the parents, you don't give your child to an adult to play with. Even without considering the possibility of illegal activities. It's a bad choice if you do it, but even a bad choice is still a choice.
     
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  4. Alexis

    Alexis Soap Chat Champion

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    You obviously do need to watch the documentary. How can you even comment on the situation if you haven't watched it. You've just made up your mind without hearing anything.

    The kids don't say he just cornered them in a room and viciously raped them. There was an entire grooming process. One of them believed he was married to Jackson! Watch it. You've already made up your mind, so watching wont change that. But at least you'd see two sides.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
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  5. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson drilling for soap

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    I'll watch it as soon as he's proven guilty.

    Jussie Smollett happened only two weeks ago.
     
  6. pete lashmar

    pete lashmar Soap Chat Fan

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    Since watching the documentary I have spent the past few days reviewing all kinds of material available online about Jackson. For every negative I researched for more information, for every questionable act I researched for more information.

    There is so much information out there that I had no idea existed. I had no idea that Jordy's drawing of Jackson's penis actually matched up - and that's just the beginning.

    Secret rooms with hardcore pornography in Neverland, FBI reports, Court reports - there's just far too much information available that points to Jackson being a child molester.

    It really saddens me to say it, but it's there - the question now is, how the hell did he get away with it?
     
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  7. TJames03

    TJames03 Soap Chat Addict

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    Like MJ's maid has finally said, she cleaned up a lot of boys underwear and Vaseline....
     
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  8. Grant Jennings

    Grant Jennings Soap Chat Fan

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    Forensics show the finger prints of Jackson and the boys on the porn - on the same pages. Jordy's drawing included the underside of Jackson's penis, how the hell would he know what that looked like? Even if they bathed together or went skinny-dipping (which I still consider extremely inappropriate) he wouldn't have seen the underside; the only explanation for how he would see it and remember - in detail - the vitiligo markings would be if he suffered repeated sexual abuse.
     
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  9. Willie Oleson

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    What bothers me about the trailer is that it looks way too stylish, like a typical, modern shocumentary.
    Was this made to help the victims or to entertain the audience?
    I'm not going to take sides (yet) and I'll save the detective games for the NuDynasty forum, but there's something seriously disturbing about all this.

    So...who's the runner-up for the title King Of Pop? A new coronation seems inevitable now.
     
  10. Grant Jennings

    Grant Jennings Soap Chat Fan

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    Corey Feldman, who has defended Jackson in the past, has said he finds Robson and Safechuck "believable" and "should be taken seriously".
     
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  11. Alexis

    Alexis Soap Chat Champion

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    Having seen the entire documentary I am convinced that Jackson was a paedophile. I would like people to justify his strange behavior with more of an excuse than, “he didn’t have a childhood” so what! Lots of kids have a rough time growing up. Lots of kids miss out on playing and having fun. Those kids don’t turn into adults who sleep with little blonde boys and have a constant need to have said kids around them. At great, great expense! Why after the first allegations would he even entertain the idea of having children at his ranch? Because he was sick and needed to have the children there.
     
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  12. Ome

    Ome Admin

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    Based on what I'd seen and read years ago I knew he had to be guilty. I've only seen part one so far and nothing has changed.

    I'm all for everyone having their own opinion on the subject, but I fail to understand why some of his fans are screaming at the top of their voices he's innocent when they've never met him, nor have they met anyone involved in what's happened. I'm amazed that someone would judge Michael Jackson as innocent because he was creative in the world of music.

    I also think it's ridiculous to say the man is dead, so why drag all this up? Lots of victims of abuse spend their entire life in denial of what's happened to them, that and the fact this man was powerful (just look at his devoted fans), they have the fear that no one would believe them and they're right, even now twenty/thirty years later.




    The same way most people in power get away with the crimes they commit.
     
  13. Willie Oleson

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    True, but Michael Jackson never became a man, he grew up to become a larger than life pop icon. His life never stopped being crazy.
    That doesn't justify child abuse, but at least it could explain his eccentric and offbeat lifestyle and behaviour, like his obsession with plastic surgery, for example.
    There are so many reasons besides the possibility of molestation why all these children shouldn't have been there in the first place.
    Children need to be in school or play outside with other children, they should not hang out with the King Of Pop.
    Weren't there any red flags at all?
    Criminals should pay for their sins, I don't care if it happened 5 or 50 years ago.
    But that's no longer possible, so what else is there to gain from all this? Is it really a healing process to tell the world about all these disgusting details?
    What good does it do, how is any of this going to improve anything for anyone?
    It seems to me that the only one who's going to benefit from all this is Dan Reed.
     
  14. Ome

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    Probably not at the time, and if there were questions, it would be easy to not suspect the worse, after all, MJ was seen as a great public figure in the eyes of a lot of people.

    When you look back at the 70s and 80s, life seemed more innocent. How many famous people back then were accused of horrible crimes?

    Looking at life now and what we have learned, discovered through social media (yeah, I know it's not all that black and white) and cases that have since gone public in the #metoo era, it's a completely different world to back then and even when you look at the news channels on TV, back then it was very small and only the really big stories would hit the headlines.

    Well, for a start, they could look at MJ's staff, were any of these aware of what was happening? I know they couldn't do much after Jimmy Saville died, but what they could do was investigate those around him, or change the way things run. The BBC was held accountable for some of the happenings going on and the investigating created new laws surround certain areas, again through the way these people are now coming forward, they can learn ways of something like this not happening again.

    It highlights the crimes in the history of child abuse, it may lead to more new laws that protect children who are more vulnerable than others.

    The parents didn't see this happening at the time because they too were swept off their feet at someone as large as MJ coming into their homes and buying them gifts, taking them on trips etc..


    I think it goes further than that, people who have watched it can form some opinion of it, whether they believe it happened or didn't.
     
  15. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    I refused to watch. Why? Because both of these alleged victims testified under oath Michael was not an abuser. How do those members of the jury - if they watched the documentary - now feel about their decision if what these men are now saying is fact? Is there a Statute of Limitations regarding lying under oath? Speaking with relatives yesterday after the first part had aired here in Australia on Friday night, most asked the question. Where the hell were the parents? Seduced by celebrity. Blinded by fame and fortune.
     
  16. Alexis

    Alexis Soap Chat Champion

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    To me that is just not a valid point. Kids are abused all over the world all the time. The mother of Jimmy admits in the documentary that she ultimately f**ked up. She had one job to do and she failed. She didn't protect her son. It happens. I'm sure every parent of every abused child feels the same. They were charmed, taken in, fooled, that's what abusers do.

    Of course the parents were seduced by the celebrity lifestyle. They were plucked from obscurity and ushered into the lap of luxury, dazzled by it all. And whilst they were distracted, blinded, the abuse occurred. They trusted Jackson, based on his saviour image. He painted himself as half Peter Pan, half Jesus Christ. Of course the parents trusted him. He could never!

    These outrageous and outlandish excuses for Jackson's excessively creepy behaviour just seem to get thinner and thinner. Saying he wasn't a man, he was pop icon or whatever. No, he was a man. He was a very smart man, some would say a genius. He didn't have the mental age of a child. He was an intelligent fully functioning man.
    The only kind of man who wants to be with little boys all the time like that, to have them sleep in his bed, is a paedophile.

    The marriage to Lisa Marie Presley is also a red flag. He's never had a relationship with a woman. Then he's accused of child abuse and bam! All of a sudden he's wedding the King's daughter. A fruitless marriage, that birthed nothing but a string of really forced and awkward photos of the couple and some unconvincing public appearances. Let all the hoopla die off then Lisa exits stage left.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
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  17. Richard Channing

    Richard Channing Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    I finally got round to watching the doc last night. I went into it pretty sceptical and actually the first half I was still pretty sceptical, as I found their retelling of events to be very matter of fact. But as I watched the second half I became more and more convinced that they were telling the truth. Especially when they spoke of the effect it's had on them as adults. So as far as I'm concerned now MJ clearly was a paedophile and used all the money and power at his disposal to convince us otherwise and avoid prosecution.
     
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  18. Snarky's Ghost

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  19. Ome

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    Do you know how old they were when they testified?
    Do you know that MJ told them they would go to jail if anyone found out - Jailed for life!!

    They shouldn't feel any regret because at the time they believed what was said in court.

    Look at it for what it was, a few kids against a very powerful and influential person.



    Then there is no point discussing it with you if you're going to be closeminded on the subject.
     
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  20. Willie Oleson

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    So true, all of it.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, I just plucked this from the internet, but I believe they continued to support him after he died?

    You only get so much chances in this life. Like the guy in the video said, why going back in time and describe (in gory details, otherwise there would be no "Leaving Neverland") what most people already knew or suspected?
    So the audience gets to enjoy all the misery only to act as The Justified afterwards and retroactively condemn and ban Michael Jackson.
     

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