Leaving Neverland

Discussion in 'Documentaries' started by Richard Channing, Mar 3, 2019.

  1. pete lashmar

    pete lashmar Soap Chat Fan

    Message Count:
    426
    Trophy Points:
    480
    Location:
    Portugal
    Ratings:
    +812
    Gender:
    Male
    It's interesting isn't it - the Jackson estate is worth at least a billion and yet they haven't brought out all the big guns against this film - they've made some appearances and rubbished the claims, but very little really.

    But they're used to people claiming things I suppose.

    It makes we wonder - Jackson was always hunted by people, he had so many people who wanted part of him, his money, his fame, his world - it must be virtually impossible for them to trust anyone.

    And then when his life was on the line he puts a 23 year old on the stand as THE star witness - someone who now alleges he was repeatedly abused and raped over a 7 year period, in a trial where the prosecution were absolutely determined to get a conviction so they pushed Wade Robson as hard as they could.

    Would Jackson really take that risk if he was guilty? Seems an insane thing to do.

    I expect the Jackson estate are planning something. It's the 10th anniversary of his death in September and I get the feeling they'll want to clear his name as much as they can before the anniversary.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

    Message Count:
    5,607
    Trophy Points:
    6,136
    Location:
    Haunting that cozy cellar under Falcon Crest
    Ratings:
    +7,368
    Medals:
    7
    Member Since:
    September 2000
    June. Same for poor Farrah.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. Ome

    Ome Admin

    Message Count:
    9,844
    Trophy Points:
    2,638
    Ratings:
    +16,847
    Gender:
    Male
    Why not, he got away with it before.

    An insane thing? For Michael Jackson?

    The guy who openly admitted to sleeping with little boys - or is that not real anymore?
     
  4. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson drilling for soap

    Message Count:
    10,453
    Trophy Points:
    9,250
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    somewherie on the prairie
    Ratings:
    +19,225
    Medals:
    12
    Member Since:
    April 2002
    When they showed the parts before the (alleged) abuse started I thought, it's not healthy to be so extremely close to another person, this is not going to be a happy ending.
    The life that was too good to be true, the feelings of betrayal, the awful trial - it was a trauma in the making.
     
  5. pete lashmar

    pete lashmar Soap Chat Fan

    Message Count:
    426
    Trophy Points:
    480
    Location:
    Portugal
    Ratings:
    +812
    Gender:
    Male
    Jordan's case never went to trial, so Jackson really didn't know how Wade would do on the stand.

    It was a massive gamble if he had in fact been abused.
     
  6. TJames03

    TJames03 Soap Chat Addict

    Message Count:
    1,151
    Trophy Points:
    487
    Location:
    California
    Ratings:
    +687
    Medals:
    2
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  7. Ome

    Ome Admin

    Message Count:
    9,844
    Trophy Points:
    2,638
    Ratings:
    +16,847
    Gender:
    Male



    It's great reading people's thoughts on this thread, but I have no idea what you're saying.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  8. Emelee

    Emelee Soap Chat Star

    Message Count:
    2,816
    Trophy Points:
    2,242
    Location:
    Sweden
    Ratings:
    +4,789
    Medals:
    6
    Guilty or not of this, MJ was beyond creepy in the video clips where he wished one of the kids happy birthday. The way he spoke gave me the creeps big time. It's obvious that he was not well in the head.

    He admitted that he slept in the same bed with these boys, and that's just 100% abnormal. Only a father, grandfather or uncle can do that without it being creepy.

    I think it's possible that he did do what he's accused of, but I was not there. I can't say more than I think it's possible.

    As a person who was molested as a child myself, I know that if your molester tells you to keep quiet, you do so. If the molester wants to keep seeing you, you say ok. If your molester asks you to lie, you lie. As a child, you are so easy to manipulate and you're not even sure that your molester is doing something wrong. I consider myself a strong grown-up, but I was very easily convinced by others as a kid.

    Therefore, I don't find it strange that a victim of child molestation would suddenly decide to speak up. I only spoke up 2 years ago myself. I finally felt less ashamed and stronger in myself. My parents had no idea of what had happened to me, even though they were in the same house when it happened.

    My instinct about MJ will remain that there was something mentally wrong with him, based only on video clips of him that I've seen. If he molested kids or not, I don't know. But I certainly don't rule it out.
     
    • Cyber Hug Cyber Hug x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson drilling for soap

    Message Count:
    10,453
    Trophy Points:
    9,250
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    somewherie on the prairie
    Ratings:
    +19,225
    Medals:
    12
    Member Since:
    April 2002
    That's how I feel about it, but I already knew that before I watched it.

    The dust has settled, it's almost as if we've made some kind of time-jump. Maybe the discussion was bigger than the documentary itself.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. TJames03

    TJames03 Soap Chat Addict

    Message Count:
    1,151
    Trophy Points:
    487
    Location:
    California
    Ratings:
    +687
    Medals:
    2
    I don't even think a father, etc., sleeping with boys is really normal, let alone a non-related man in his forties. People that defend MJ never really acknowledge the utter bizarreness of his behavior - and that is just the beginning of his craziness....
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. TJames03

    TJames03 Soap Chat Addict

    Message Count:
    1,151
    Trophy Points:
    487
    Location:
    California
    Ratings:
    +687
    Medals:
    2
    Ok, not really on topic, but a questiin for the men only: now, I am not a parent, so maybe that is why I feel this way, but at my gym there are some men that bring their little boys into the men's locker room. The showers are 100 percent communal, so when you are in them, you are nude i fro t of everyone. Ok, so I find it uber creepy when the guys bring their toddlers into the showers with them, especially when there is daycare available. Am I in the wrong for feeling weird? Am I weird for not wanting a child of four or five to be standing nude next to my nude body?
     
  12. pete lashmar

    pete lashmar Soap Chat Fan

    Message Count:
    426
    Trophy Points:
    480
    Location:
    Portugal
    Ratings:
    +812
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm not a father either, but I suppose it's no different to being in a pool changing room/shower. I would also be very uncomfortable with it.
     
  13. Ked

    Ked Soap Chat Enthusiast

    Message Count:
    2,372
    Trophy Points:
    1,098
    Ratings:
    +2,017
    Medals:
    1
    I'm not a father either, but I think you have every right to feel uncomfortable about it. I'd hate it too, and its one of the several reasons why I don't use public showers. Its bad enough when its just adults, but bringing in kids?

    Then again, I can also understand the dads wanting to keep an eye on their kid at all times (these days, its almost like, how can they not?).
     
  14. TJames03

    TJames03 Soap Chat Addict

    Message Count:
    1,151
    Trophy Points:
    487
    Location:
    California
    Ratings:
    +687
    Medals:
    2
    Cool. I thought I was the odd one. I mean, it doesn't happen constantly, but it does happen. The children are oblivious to it, thankfully.
     
  15. Ome

    Ome Admin

    Message Count:
    9,844
    Trophy Points:
    2,638
    Ratings:
    +16,847
    Gender:
    Male

    Yeah, but if the person doing this had a bad childhood, then it seems some people willing to put that silly little nonsense to one side. Besides, this wasn't just any man, it was Michael Jackson and he's a pop icon, there's no way on the earth a pop icon could abuse little boys.


    Just saying...
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. Angela Channing

    Angela Channing Soap Chat Hero

    Message Count:
    6,333
    Trophy Points:
    7,960
    Ratings:
    +9,380
    Medals:
    10
    Member Since:
    1999
    I'm always quick to acknowledge that Michael Jackson was a weird guy and probably had a personality disorder but that's far from being a paedophile.

    At my gym we don't have communal showers (thankfully) but on weekends some men bring their young children into the men's changing room, both boys and girls, to change for the swimming pool and they do so alongside the other men at the gym. I'm not comfortable with it but I don't let it change my behaviour, I just ignore them and when I change or get ready for the shower, I'm briefly naked in front of everyone and when the children change they generally do the same. There is a difference between being naked and being sexual so although it's uncomfortable it's also not that big a deal.

    I don't agree. I think it was weird that Michael Jackson shared a bed with children but there is a difference between sharing a bed and abusing a child. Also, I never would think a bad childhood should excuse child abuse but also I don't think an allegation of child abuse is the same as being guilty of child abuse.

    I'm not even a fan of Michael Jackson, I don't own a single one of his records and I've never really listen to his music by choice, so I'm not a besotted fan that isn't prepared to see any wrong in their idol. I just believe that if a jury sat through months of evidence from both sides under oath in a courtroom and not just a one-sided documentary that lasted a few hours, they are in a better position to judge whether or not Michael Jackson was guilty than I am.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson drilling for soap

    Message Count:
    10,453
    Trophy Points:
    9,250
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    somewherie on the prairie
    Ratings:
    +19,225
    Medals:
    12
    Member Since:
    April 2002
    I think you're overreacting a little bit.
     
  18. Ome

    Ome Admin

    Message Count:
    9,844
    Trophy Points:
    2,638
    Ratings:
    +16,847
    Gender:
    Male
    This is where we differ, I think it's completely wrong, there's nothing weird about it at all, it shouldn't happen.

    Oh, I know that, I was just being facetious in my comments earlier today.

    Agreed, but we're all just going on what we've read/seen or heard through the media.

    I bought quite a few of his records and I went to see him live on his Dangerous tour. We do agree that it's not about the music.

    Yes, fair enough, but at the same time, we see innocent people go to jail and guilty people walk free.



    There are just too many accusations against a (once) powerful man who had the best defence money could by. A man who groomed little boys and put the fear of God in him by making them silent if anyone was to ask them what happened.

    Of course, the first accuser could have lied

    And the second accuser

    And the third accuser...
     
    • Like Like x 2
  19. Emelee

    Emelee Soap Chat Star

    Message Count:
    2,816
    Trophy Points:
    2,242
    Location:
    Sweden
    Ratings:
    +4,789
    Medals:
    6
    I wouldn't mind, but maybe it's different for women? Not a parent myself, but if there are kids in the shower- or dressing room, I only mind if the kids are loud or running around.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Angela Channing

    Angela Channing Soap Chat Hero

    Message Count:
    6,333
    Trophy Points:
    7,960
    Ratings:
    +9,380
    Medals:
    10
    Member Since:
    1999
    Michael Jackson said he slept on one side of the bed and his sleepover friend slept on the other side. Had there been physical contact while they were in bed then that would have been completely wrong but he always maintained there was none. He saw it as a sleepover that young children sometimes do and is in keeping with the idea that he was trying to create the childhood that he wanted but never had. Because such a set up is outside our sphere of normality we question it but as Macaulay Culkin said "It’s easy to say it was ‘weird’ or whatever, but it wasn’t, because it made sense.” I think his personal experience of what happened in Michael Jackson's bedroom carries a lot more weight than our opinions.

    But people make false allegations all the time. Even in the Jimmy Saville case, some people who claimed to be victims were shown to have made false allegations so they could claim against his estate. Cliff Richard also had several accusers, do you think they were all telling the truth too even though Cliff was cleared of the charges?
     

Share This Page