1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Most dishonest, manipulative show

Discussion in 'Notable TV' started by Jimmy Todd, Nov 21, 2019.

  1. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Enthusiast EXP: 2 Years

    Threads:
    84
    Messages:
    2,398
    Trophy Points:
    1,098
    Occupation:
    Instigator
    Location:
    Alexis' studio
    Ratings:
    +3,917
    Well, his wife became the center of his world by season three.
    As you say, it is in the eye of the beholder. For this viewer, season one Blake was portrayed very much as the Godfather of Colorado, and I don't consider the Godfather to be someone the audience is supposed to see as the moral center(Brando or Pacino). The season 1 episodes made it obvious that Steven was right and Blake was wrong. But the audience did need someone to voice their perspective, and the homophobic opinion was very much the nation's (nay, the world's) perspective in 1981.
    Season 1 Dynasty did not have a simplistic morality like all shows on the air at the time. Characters had inexcusable behaviour and also more vulnerable moments. I think the way the show portrayed it through Blake and Steven was ground-breaking for 1981, and very, very gutsy. Al Corley's Steven was a revelation for gay people who watched the show. He certainly was for me, which probably made his season 2 sudden straightening/lobotomy such a slap in the face. You can certainly say that in the long run, Dynasty did do damage with the way they handled Steven, a co-effort by the writers AND Jack Coleman's own homophobia, but the season 1 episodes brought a gay man to be part of the core cast of a marquee show on a US television network.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle EXP: 19 Years

    Threads:
    512
    Messages:
    7,007
    Trophy Points:
    6,136
    Occupation:
    INFJ
    Location:
    Haunting that cozy cellar under Falcon Crest
    Ratings:
    +9,020
    Krystle was indeed the plastic Stepford wife for most of the run of the show, but I don't think her failure to be -- or remain -- the moral center was because she was pitted against the Wicked Witch. Glinda the Good Witch, for example, was convincing enough as the moral center of OZ.

    Krystle was constrained by the static acting directive and producers' desire to keep her in as much of a box as Blake did, and as insulted as Alexis made her. And there was their refusal to follow up on her innate goodness (healing the sick and feeding the poor, naturally).

    I was watching her crap 1979 movie AVALANCHE EXPRESS the other day, and yet Linda is a three-dimensional person, one whose pain you believe, because of her acting, despite a hapless script.

    Krystle's moral center was stolen by tying her down and replacing with a soulless, frozen double ...... hey, what a great idea for a plotline!!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator EXP: 17 Years

    Threads:
    261
    Messages:
    12,018
    Trophy Points:
    9,250
    Occupation:
    marriage counselor
    Location:
    in the middle of soapwhere
    Ratings:
    +22,160
    But does it have to be literally spelt out when the viewer already knows these things?
     
  4. Toni

    Toni Soap Chat Mega Star EXP: 18 Years

    Threads:
    41
    Messages:
    3,089
    Trophy Points:
    4,844
    Occupation:
    Aspiring writer and factual webmaster
    Location:
    Fletcher Sanitarium, Barcelona, Spain
    Ratings:
    +5,495
    Did they really...? And did they make it interesting...? It´s a matter of opinion, isn´t it? And why someone who has seen the show can´t express an opinion different to yours? (I still adore you though...) :danc:
     
  5. Jimmy Todd

    Jimmy Todd Soap Chat Well-Known Member EXP: 9 Months

    Threads:
    51
    Messages:
    773
    Trophy Points:
    480
    Location:
    United States
    Ratings:
    +1,213
    Not necessarily. There could be room for what a viewer perceives. That's when a show is really interesting. I think KL and Dallas achieved that quite often. Dynasty may have in seasons 1 or 2.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator EXP: 17 Years

    Threads:
    261
    Messages:
    12,018
    Trophy Points:
    9,250
    Occupation:
    marriage counselor
    Location:
    in the middle of soapwhere
    Ratings:
    +22,160
    Well...
    upload_2019-11-24_23-2-7.png
    I disagreed with you because the Dynasty episodes contradict your opinion. But I didn't say that you should change your opinion.
     
    • Cyber Hug Cyber Hug x 1
  7. Emelee

    Emelee Soap Chat Mega Star EXP: 7 Years

    Threads:
    326
    Messages:
    3,253
    Trophy Points:
    2,551
    Occupation:
    Procrastinatress
    Location:
    Sweden
    Ratings:
    +5,522
    It's the tears and the "poor me" attitude that I cannot stand. Not the manipulation by one character of another character. The dishonest part IMO is playing the wing-clipped bird who cries and cries in front of the people they want to feel sorry for you. That´s not anything Stephanie ever did. She never turned on the waterworks to get people to feel sorry for her. All B&B characters are hypocrites, always have been. But it's the way some act hypocritical and victimizes themselves by crying all the time that really makes me irritated.

    Stephanie way always portrayed as the antagonist while Brooke was always portrayed as the heroine. But come on!!!!!!!! Give me a shovel!!! They are equally as bad when it comes to their actions. Stephanie never pretended that she was sorry for what she did when she wasn't. She never cried to Eric and Ridge to make them feel sorry for her. They knew exactly where she stood and how she felt. Brooke on the other hand cried and cried and cried. But not to Stephanie or Taylor. When alone with Stephanie & Taylor, her real self came out. But to Eric and Ridge, it was all "I made a mistake and now Taylor and Stephanie are horrible to me. And I swear I have changed!!!" And it was played for real, like she really did feel bad. Like she really had changed. But of course she hadn't. She still hasn't changed. She's going off on Flo, Shauna and Thomas for their lies. She tells Shauna that she's "the tramp of Vegas" and how horrible she is because she didn't know Flo's paternity. Meanwhile, Brooke had to have paternity tests done on both Bridget and R.J. And her son-in-law fathered Hope. And she wanted Hope to lie about possibly killing Thomas. All the while she cries and thinks everyone is horrible except the "real" Logans. She still refuses to see Flo as a Logan, so blood is not enough to be a Logan apparently.

    Brooke would be a much more tolerable character if she didn't cry every week. It's those tears that make me really hate her!!!!
     
  8. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Enthusiast EXP: 2 Years

    Threads:
    84
    Messages:
    2,398
    Trophy Points:
    1,098
    Occupation:
    Instigator
    Location:
    Alexis' studio
    Ratings:
    +3,917
    I guess the episodes where Stephanie pretended to have a heart attack so that people would feel sorry for her and Ridge would dump Brooke and marry Taylor never aired in Sweden.
     
  9. Toni

    Toni Soap Chat Mega Star EXP: 18 Years

    Threads:
    41
    Messages:
    3,089
    Trophy Points:
    4,844
    Occupation:
    Aspiring writer and factual webmaster
    Location:
    Fletcher Sanitarium, Barcelona, Spain
    Ratings:
    +5,495
    Of course the Ted Dinard case was interesting, in fact the first 2 seasons were interesting because every character still had a personality. But since the moment Steven slept with Sammy Jo, I began to lose interest for the show. And well, he said at some point "I am homosexual!" before Corley left, but the first thing he did when he came back reincarnated in tight-ass Coleman was marrying another woman, Claudia, and do a "normal" life with her. Those writers were experts at regression, not development... (I also think the same about certain parts of "Dallas" and "Knots Landing", so let´s have a happy verbal catfight...). Anyway, what I think the show did is not what you think it did, this is the problem...
     
  10. Emelee

    Emelee Soap Chat Mega Star EXP: 7 Years

    Threads:
    326
    Messages:
    3,253
    Trophy Points:
    2,551
    Occupation:
    Procrastinatress
    Location:
    Sweden
    Ratings:
    +5,522
    That was just pure manipulation. She never cried. She just pretended to be in pain and viewers found out like 1 episode later that she was faking. So it was never any manipulation from the writers to make viewers feel sorry for Syephanie.

    Brooke's tears are both directed to characters AND viewers. The writers want us to feel sorry for Brooke. They want viewers to root for her. Ergo, they have her cry all frickin the time.
     
  11. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Enthusiast EXP: 2 Years

    Threads:
    84
    Messages:
    2,398
    Trophy Points:
    1,098
    Occupation:
    Instigator
    Location:
    Alexis' studio
    Ratings:
    +3,917
    You are right about Stephanie. But Taylor does cry a lot--she just does it lousy. Maybe that is why viewers never fall for it.
    But I doubt even people who like Brooke are manipulated by her tears. They know she cries at the drop of a hat. But the main charge against her (hypocrisy) coming from people who ignore Stephanie and Taylor's hypocrisy makes the charge lose credibility in my book.
     
  12. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator EXP: 17 Years

    Threads:
    261
    Messages:
    12,018
    Trophy Points:
    9,250
    Occupation:
    marriage counselor
    Location:
    in the middle of soapwhere
    Ratings:
    +22,160
    I don't think it's a problem, Toni :pals:
     
  13. Toni

    Toni Soap Chat Mega Star EXP: 18 Years

    Threads:
    41
    Messages:
    3,089
    Trophy Points:
    4,844
    Occupation:
    Aspiring writer and factual webmaster
    Location:
    Fletcher Sanitarium, Barcelona, Spain
    Ratings:
    +5,495
    Of course not, you are and will always be my Willie...! :love4:
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  14. Toni

    Toni Soap Chat Mega Star EXP: 18 Years

    Threads:
    41
    Messages:
    3,089
    Trophy Points:
    4,844
    Occupation:
    Aspiring writer and factual webmaster
    Location:
    Fletcher Sanitarium, Barcelona, Spain
    Ratings:
    +5,495
    But not in "Wicked", where she was a manipulative little beech played by Kristin Chenoweth...
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. Emelee

    Emelee Soap Chat Mega Star EXP: 7 Years

    Threads:
    326
    Messages:
    3,253
    Trophy Points:
    2,551
    Occupation:
    Procrastinatress
    Location:
    Sweden
    Ratings:
    +5,522
    Stephanie and Taylor have always been called out by fans when they are being hypocritical. Rightly so. There isn't any character who should cast stones except the babies. I think fans of Stephanie and Taylor are just sick of Brooke always being the one coming up on top. It's annoying.
     
  16. Alexis

    Alexis Soap Chat Warrior EXP: 12 Years

    Threads:
    93
    Messages:
    5,500
    Trophy Points:
    2,638
    Ratings:
    +9,196
    You can ask that she does it quietly. In another room.
     
  17. bmasters9

    bmasters9 Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 3 Years

    Threads:
    53
    Messages:
    1,644
    Trophy Points:
    690
    Location:
    LL
    Ratings:
    +1,030
    What do you mean by "overwrought Christian melodrama"?
     
  18. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 12 Years

    Threads:
    128
    Messages:
    1,827
    Trophy Points:
    690
    Occupation:
    Rock Guitarist
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +2,003
    That's right. These are fictional characters, so what should it matter to us what happens to them? They manipulate our emotions into caring what happens to them and that manipulation is done by good story-telling.

    I've never seem Little House On The Prairie but I know of it. I also wonder what this comment was supposed to mean because LHOP was created by libertarians. They're atheists!
     
  19. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 12 Years

    Threads:
    128
    Messages:
    1,827
    Trophy Points:
    690
    Occupation:
    Rock Guitarist
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +2,003
    I agree that it's the purpose of a show to provide conflict and drama - not to teach you what proper morality is. Why would you trust a TV show to teach you right from wrong? Morality varies from person to person and is based on a person's belief of what is right and what is wrong. We all have our own ideas of what exactly that is, which is one of the dangerous things about political correctness. Who gets to decide what is politically correct and what isn't? Who gets to decide that a joke that was funny last week isn't funny anymore?

    I haven't seen Dynasty, but based on what was written here, the character seems to have firm convictions about what is right and what is wrong. I can deal with a person like that much better than someone who is wishy-washy and changes his beliefs to whatever benefits him in a particular situation. With a person who has firm convictions, at least you know who you're dealing with!

    I expect a TV drama to try to manipulate my emotions. That's what it should be doing. There isn't anything dishonest about that. They're trying to create emotion to make a compelling story. What I find dishonest is a show that has an agenda behind it, where it tries to teach you what to think, a show that tries to get your political or ethical beliefs in line with their own ethics or politics. It's not a show's job to try to support a certain cause or undermine another cause. Their job is to entertain. They're in show business - not in the business of politics. Besides, if they do try to run a political agenda, they run the risk of alienating 50% of their potential audience and that's bad business.

    What characters are good, or the "moral center"of a show is in the eye of the beholder. Usually they're all flawed characters anyway. I like it better when they don't try too hard to get you to like or dislike a certain character - to me that's contrived. Just let things take their natural course, let a character's actions speak for themselves and the audience will make up their own minds. They can't force me to like anyone anyway and it's annoying to have a certain character you don't like be shoved down your throat.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. bmasters9

    bmasters9 Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 3 Years

    Threads:
    53
    Messages:
    1,644
    Trophy Points:
    690
    Location:
    LL
    Ratings:
    +1,030
    That's a great question-- unfortunately, autistics like myself take things quite literally, and though we might want to just accept that a show is just a fictional story, our autistic brains won't let us; that phenomenon is called "Everybody is Jesus in Purgatory." Have you ever heard of that?
     
    • Informative Informative x 1

Share This Page