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Rewatching Knots Landing

Discussion in 'Knots Landing' started by Karin Schill, Sep 22, 2017.

  1. Seaviewer

    Seaviewer Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    I don't see it as a complication. Pam's dream didn't erase Lucy as a character. The fact that she was mentioned in season 14 proves that. As long as they didn't discuss Bobby's status there'd be no conflict.
     
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  2. Mustard

    Mustard Soap Chat Fan

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    But Bobby living on, or dying, had a knock on effect beyond just Bobby.

    In the universe where Bobby died, all of Knots Landing is canon but only the events of Seasons 1-9 DVD of Dallas are canon (minus the last scene of Season 9 DVD). So basically, the last we saw of Lucy in this universe was in Swansong.

    In the other universe, where Bobby lived on, canon is Seasons 1-6 of Knots Landing only, and Dallas DVD Seasons 1-8 (last scene before the dream starts in Swansong is Ray and Donna talking at night around 51 minutes into the episode) and Seasons 10-14.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
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  3. Seaviewer

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    I'm not going to get into an argument about the dual universe theory. The fact remains that Lucy still exists in Knots Landing as late as Val's supposed death because Mack mentions her by name as being in Europe and offers to track her down.
     
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  4. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Interesting points about how Bobby's death divided the shows into dual universes. Still I don't see it as a problem whereas Lucy is concerned. Also the fact that they said that Lucy was in Europe actually follows what happened on Dallas later on as when Lucy left the show in 1990 that's where she was going. So they had been paying attention there.

    So well the way I see it in Knots Landing everything that happened up until the dream season in Dallas is canon. In Dallas everything that happened on Knots Landing is canon except Bobby dying. Because well if nothing that happened on Knots after the dream season was canon then Gary would still be married to Abby in the Dallas universe. So the fact that he ended up with Val follows the Knots Landing story. ;)


    Good point. I had noticed that they had aged Meg with about two years but not that they had changed her birthday!

    Tonight it was "Holiday on Ice"...

    It was a really cute Christmas episode. I loved it how Gary dressed up as Santa and that the power went out. The candle lights created a special atmosphere. :kwan:
    Also it was hilarious how the men wanted to watch football and the women wanted to hear that Christmas music.:sc:

    Also love the singing of the Christmas carols. But it was hilarious how Michele Lee's singing was pre-recorded with piano when everything else was acapela live. It really stood out and probably would have fitted better if we'd seen one of the other characters accompanying her on the piano.

    It was also funny how Betsy thought Kate's present was to just her and not also to Bobby. Meg running into "Uncle Greg" at Claudia's was cute too. Poor Greg when she asked him if he had any kids. It must have been weird for him.

    Poor Jason doesn't wanna go to Sweden. Christmas Day seems like a weird day to leave on too as usually schools have two weeks off over the holidays. So the semester doesn't start until after New Years over here so it would have made more sense for him to arrive a few days later. If you are in college you don't get any holidays though as teachers love to give you assignments over the holidays which are due early in January. :re:

    Also this is a bit of an odd reflection, but watching the McKenzie's and Ewings celebrate the holiday together and being so close friends made me wonder why the creators of Friends doesn't want to give us a spin-off show now?
    I mean I can totally picture the six of them still being close friends even in mid-life. Especially considering that Chandler & Monica ended up married and Ross and Rachel ended up together too and Monica and Ross will always be siblings. So there's some natural connections there. I know this is totally unrelated to Knots Landing but still I think it could work!

    But yeah over all it was a really cute Christmas episode. :18:
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
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  5. Mustard

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    I'm not saying that nothing happened after Season 6 of Knots Landing in one universe, or Season 9 DVD of Dallas in the other, as life did go on in those universes but certain things would be different from what we watched on screen, to a greater or lesser extent. With Seasons 9 and 10 DVD of Dallas we get to see both versions, i.e. the year without Bobby after he died, and the year with Bobby living on without dying. It is different by quite a bit. In Knots Landing, perhaps the events beyond Season 6 don't change as much, but certain things would be different. Gary would not be in Dallas for Bobby's funeral which allowed Abby and Greg to take advantage at Empire Valley, nor is it likely that Val would have named her son Bobby.
     
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  6. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree with you about Val naming her son Bobby. That was definitely done because Bobby had died.

    Also I haven't been watching much of Knots Landing lately since I've been travelling. But I thought I'd write a little something about the last episode I did watch before I left, which was "Letting Go".

    I think this was a great episode that for a change was very Gary & Val centered. I loved that. It was a poignant episode too as it was all about Gary letting go of Westfork and moving on. It didn't work for him to work for someone else who didn't love the land the way he did. You can see the struggle in Gary how he wants to remain at the ranch but also doesn't cope well with taking orders from someone else and ends up disagreeing with the new owner's decisions.

    I felt sorry for Bobby when Gary yelled at him. But at least he sat down and talked to him about it afterwards. I liked that father-son moment.

    The episode also ended on a very nice note with Gary and Val disappearing up the stairs while Bobby looked out wondering where his parents had gone! :giggle:

    Finally I couldn't help but noticing that Joan van Ark had directed the episode and I think she did a great job of it. :clap:
    If I remember correctly Joan, Michele, John, Kevin and William have all taken turns directing at least one episode of the show and am I forgetting someone here? :think:
     
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  7. Daniel Avery

    Daniel Avery Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I think you hit all the names. I assume the producers allowed them to direct episodes as a way of getting around the budget tightening. They might not have been getting the generous raises of the 1980s, so this allowed them to stretch their skills a bit and get an extra paycheck at the same time. They got to do episodes in 12, 13, and 14, usually (but not always) two episodes per season each. JvA even directed an episode of season 14 despite "Val" not being in it.
     
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  8. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Okay so tonight it was "Denials"...

    It's back to revolving around Greg again. This episode is pretty much all about him in the sense that even when he is not in the scene the other characters talk about him.

    Val is now writing a book about Greg and has started doing research for her book by interviewing Claudia and Greg himself. He tells her the audience wants to read the sleazy book about him but Val tells him it's not the book she wants to write since she wants his cooperation.

    Karen & Mack hate that Val is writing the book about Greg but pretends they don't in a way to keep their friendship. Gary supports Val but tells Karen he doesn't like that Val is workig on the book either.

    Karen and Mack has an awkward lunch with Paige where they talk about Greg. It ends with that Paige put up their lunch on the Sumner account and Karen and Mack are no longer in the mood for their romantic getaway that they had planned. :lol:

    Claudia is having an affair with Alex in an attempt to keep him away from Kate. Meanwhile Kate's annoying friend Vanessa has shown up and is staying with Kate. She is clearly someone who uses other people for her own enjoyment and doesn't care who she hurts in the process. I seem to remember she hurt Kate and although Kate is far from my favorite character I prefer her over Vanessa. They are both working for Anne at the radio station.

    Paige finds out that Anne and Greg are dating each other. Yikes I had forgotten that they were. It's been too long since I've watched an episode when I've forgotten about a details such as that one. :eck:

    Pierce is out for revenge. He buys a rifle and at the end he is seen aiming it at Anne and Paige. Greg notices and pushes them out of the way before a shot is fired.
     
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  9. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Tonight it was "Do You Love Me?"

    So Paige was the one who got shot by Pierce he then kidnapped her from the hospital and took her out on a sailboat where he drowned and Greg and Mack also went under.

    Naturally they survived but Greg saw Laura on the other side telling him to go back to living. So he spends the episode mourning Laura. He watches her tape and goes to visit her grave with a rose. It was a rather sweet and simple gesture. He also went to see Meg and bought her a bunch of lolipops. Then at the end when Paige shows up and starts kissing him it feels like she's just in the way.

    I don't get why Greg and Paige keeps getting back together and breaking up when they both know that they have no future. He asked her to marry him and she broke off their engagement since she knew they wouldn't be happy together. They want different things in life mainly due to their age difference. :(

    Karen even tells Greg to visit Paige because she loves him. Greg tells Karen he already knows that.

    Mary Robeson keeps trying to see Meg through Val, who thinks Greg wants to harm Mary. Mary should have just told Val the truth about her identity to start with but she didn't.

    Kate falls for Alex. So stupid. Alex rubs Claudia's nose in it.

    But yeah the main theme of the episode was Paige recovering and Greg mourning Laura again and not being sure that he actually wanted to be alive.
    A part of him rather be with Laura. :cry:

    I like the references to Laura and also to Sid in the past couple of episodes. Knots Landing is a good show that way in that they don't forget about their past.
     
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  10. Daniel Avery

    Daniel Avery Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I recall the scenes surrounding Paige's temporary paralysis being the first time I ever took notice of Nicollette's acting skills. She'd never really impressed me with her acting prowess, though to be fair the show had never given her anything really meaty to play. This was a relatively brief plot twist and she recovered quickly in that grand, unnatural soap opera tradition, but I recall thinking she acquitted herself quite well.
     
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  11. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I never thought Nicollette was a bad actress. I enjoyed the character from the beginning but yeah I guess this plot did give her something to work with.:)

    Yeah it is funny how fast she recovered. Typical soap. A character is really sick one day, fine the next! ;)

    Also tonight it was "Little Girl Lost"...

    which means that we've reached the end of season 13!

    So a proper review of the season will follow but first some thoughts on the episode.

    First off that cliffhanger with Pierce showing up in Paige's car was not exciting. Somehow I thought Val's accident was the cliffhanger but I must have remembered it wrong.

    So now we know that Mary was Laura's birth mom and therefore is Meg's grandmother. Also we thought Greg had handled her but Meg has disappeared and we're supposed to believe that Mary has snatched her.

    Greg is sick and tired of the Sumner group so he divides it between Paige, Claudia and Meg. (Karen & Mack)

    How can Anne be pregnant?
    I thought Greg wasn't able to have more kids or so he told Paige...:think:

    Kate sleeps with Alex. :re:

    Val is off to Florida. Damn I wish she had never left. :( It's not gonna be fun revisiting the season when she's kidnapped. *sigh*

    Also seems like Gary and Val have been divorced too long since Val is now used to making her own decisions without consulting with Gary and therefore she just up and leave for her business trip without discussing it with him first. He also makes the decision to take a job in Michigan without consulting with her. So there is trouble ahead. I wonder where this plot was going to go originally since writing out Val was obviously a last minute decision or else the accident surely would have been the cliffhanger in this episode...

    Now here's my thoughts on season 13:

    I loved:

    - Gary, Paige and Pierce teaming up for the tidal energy project
    It was nice to see Gary and Paige on the same side all of a sudden. I liked them going up against the Sumner group. I don't like that Gary lost his own money doing that even though it unfortunately fits with the character as he is a gambler and risktaker. It was Abby who had a business sense. Still since Jock's will tied up Gary's inheritance and only gave him the interest I guess he will still get money each year so he's not exactly broke. Still it was sort of weird how he didn't go to his family to save the ranch. I am sure Bobby would have loaned him the money. Or so would JR with interest.

    - Gary, Val and the twins living a rather normal family life
    It is nice to see them so happy after everything they've been through.

    - Greg remembering Laura
    It was just one episode but him visiting her grave and watching her tape was a nice touch.

    - Anne's radio show
    The relationship advice "tell me about it" suits Anne to a T. It's all gossiping.

    I liked:

    - Anne & Greg
    The pairing worked well together.

    - Val writing a book about Sumner
    It is an interesting idea since it creates tension between her and Karen and Mack.

    - Benny
    He was a nice guy. He gave Anne a place to stay when nobody else did.

    - Julie and Jason's puppy love

    It was a cute teenage romance.

    - Val helping Lynette to learn how to read
    There was something touching about the plot.

    - Claudia and Greg being closer
    It's like they have an actual sibling's relationship now. I like that.

    - Victoria

    The character is annoying. But I like the fact that Marcia Cross played her and that she had a scene with Nicollette Sheridan, since I love Desperate Housewives.

    I disliked:

    Brian Johnson
    - Another psycho lover who managed to kill Linda.

    Joseph
    - He was ok for Kate. But he made Gary lose his ranch!

    Gary losing the ranch
    - This was really sad. I guess they got rid of the place due to budget cuts and also to move Gary and Val back to the cul-de-sac.

    Vanessa
    - Seriously can there be a more annoying character?:fp:
    First she just shows up and expects to be staying with Kate without calling and asking if it's okay. Not cool.
    Then she doesn't tell Kate that she's sleeping with Alex. With friends like her you don't need any enemies.

    Alex
    -
    He is almost as bad as Vanessa. The two of them deserves each other.
    But yeah unlikable spoiled pretty boy type. :NI: I much prefered Jason over him.

    Pierce
    - Another psycho lover this time belonging to Paige.

    Over all I think the first half of the season was still good. But the second half really wasn't so this was when the show started to get bad...
    I can tell the end is near. :(
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
  12. Mustard

    Mustard Soap Chat Fan

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    Now that you're in the home straight, don't forget what I said much earlier in this thread. When you finish the whole marathon, go back and watch the first episode of Knots Landing. It puts the years into perspective, and makes you laugh at how things have changed, and how naive Gary and Val were back then.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
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  13. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Thank you for the reminder. I must admit I have already gone back though since I re-watched the episode when Lilimae first showed up from the first season a few weeks ago. I agree with you that it's amazing how far Gary and Val have come since season one. :)

    Val is much stronger now than she was back then when she was still so girlish and fragile in a way. Like in the episode I saw she was desperate to get Lilimae's love and approval. She was like a hurt child who was on bad terms with her mother. I guess having Lilimae stay with her for a while helped Val heal and get over the hurt that still lingered on from her childhood/teenage years and actually form a stronger bond with her mother. Also having the twins helped Val too since she got to finally be the mother she had longed to be ever since Lucy was snatched away from her.

    It's funny since right now Mary is around trying to get visitation rights to Meg. She whines that Laura was taken away from her. It's a situation that Val could relate to if she was around but somehow I don't think she would buy into Mary's story the way that Karen did in tonight's episode if she was around. Instead I think she would call Mary's bluff. I don't remember if that has something to do with her kidnapping or not. Right now Val is just missing.

    It was "Lovers and other strangers" tonight.

    The music of the opening theme is faster this year since both Larry Riley and Joan has been taken out of it. So they are two cast members short compared to last year. Oh well at least they didn't add Vanessa and Alex to the opening credits so I guess we should be thankful for small favors. ;)

    Gary is angry and worried about Val so he goes to Florida to look for her.

    Mary sues Mack and Karen for visitations rights after Mary has con Karen into telling her all about Laura.

    Kate finds Alex in the shower with Vanessa and kicks them both out. Good riddance.

    Anne tells Paige she is getting married to Greg and having his baby. "What about his vasectomy?" Paige wonders.

    Paige watches a movie that she labels as stupid. I recognized Audrey Hepburn in it. But I can't place it. There was a scene when she was saying goodbye to a man who was leaving with a train before he sweeps her off his feet and bring her along with her on the train. Can anyone remember which movie that is?
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
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  14. Daniel Avery

    Daniel Avery Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I recall sitting at home watching Mary's crocodile tears over not getting to meet/interact with her granddaughter and thinking "Why hasn't Karen, of all people, nailed her by asking why Mary doesn't seem interested in her two other (supposed) grandchildren, Jason and Daniel?"
     
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  15. Seaviewer

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    I remembered Karen calling out Meg's name as the final scene. That was one of the few episodes I recorded and was quite surprised when I played it back some time later.
     
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  16. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I know memory can be tricky. I remembered seeing Val being kidnapped and taken into the car. But we never saw her at all. We just saw a blonde woman in a car who Gary thought was Val and then they used the wedding ring to identify the victim excuse again, just as they did with Fallon on Dynasty. Of course neither character were really dead but got a memorial service or a funeral anyway.

    Ironically I think more time has been spent on Gary's funeral and Val's memorial service than on some characters that actually died such as Pat and Laura. :confuse:

    Also I am right there with you Daniel, I was thinking that if the woman really wanted to get to know her grandchildren she should have been just as interested in Jason and Daniel. But of course their father is not a millionaire so for some reason I don't see her knocking on Richard's door any time soon. ;)

    Last night it was "Love and Death".
    So Val is gone and Gary is in grief. The scene where he told the twins was really emotional to watch as they were all in tears. Except maybe Bobby. Great acting on Ted's part!:hat:
    The little girl who portrayed Betsy, I think her name is Emily, was also really good.

    It's interesting how Gary deals with Val's death since he doesn't come apart. He is angry and therefore he tries to throw out her clothes way too early, which is actually a really realistic reaction. Yet if we compare it to early Gary, who tore the place apart and broke down in tears because Val might have cancer and he felt like he couldn't live without her and then called his mama for help, he has come a long way!
    Maybe he is being this strong because of the children. He has Bobby and Betsy to think of and therefore he knows he can't come apart. After all he's promised Val a long time ago that if something ever happened to her he would take care of them. So it's time he steps up to the plate.

    If I have one complaint with the way they handle Gary's grief though it's how Kate is right there and starts kissing him when he is trying to clean out Val's clothes. That is not being a friend it is moving in on someone who is vulnerable and it's just tacky and in your face. It's like the writer's are giving the middle finger to all the Val & Gary fans out there! :mo:

    I really don't like Kate and Gary's "romance" so the countdown to the final two episodes when Val and Abby returns have already begun! :D

    Also is it just me or is the show obsessed with older man/younger woman?

    I mean there is Greg/Paige, Greg/Linda and now Gary/Kate and a few seasons ago the actress who portrayed Linda was considerd too young for Gary to be Sally's friend and now Kate who looks and acts even younger than Linda is paired up with Gary. Why? Because her innocense reminds him of how Valene used to be? Or what is the attraction?
    I don't get it but I guess Gary is not much for being alone and neither is Val. The two of them constantly gets into new relationships when they are apart.

    I did love Karen's speach about Val at the memorial service when she called her "the little engine that could". But I miss not being able to see Karen's first reaction to the news that Val was dead. :(

    Oh and what else is there to enjoy this season?

    Not much. Paige's new love interest was introduced yesterday and I rolled my eyes and sighed at his arrogance. I remember that I didn't like him much but he was an improvement over Pierce at least. But I still prefer Tom for Paige. He was the one who got away.

    Anne confessed to Mack that she is not pregnant. It's too bad for Anne that Mack found Karen before Paige found him or else I think Anne and Mack might have ended up rekindling their relationship and getting married. He seems like her true love. Anyway Anne and Greg got married last night and they are not off to good start since she hasn't been able to tell him she's not pregnant. But oh well I actually do enjoy the pairing of Anne and Greg. Also Claudia with Nick was hilarious the other day when Karen showed up at the door and found Nick opening it in a towel while Claudia was singing in the shower! rotf

    But yeah season 14 is by far my least favorite season but at least I know it will end well. :)
     
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  17. Daniel Avery

    Daniel Avery Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The blonde woman in the car that Gary saw (whom everyone assumed was Val) was actually the kidnapper's wife/co-conspirator. It was just coincidence (we are led to believe) that she resembled Val in that split-second Gary saw her.

    The best summary of this episode was the convo between Mack and Karen during the wedding:
    Karen: "I feel lost. Yesterday, the funeral. Today, the wedding."
    Mack: "I feel like this is the funeral."

    Kate does address it (and quite humorously) with her confidante Paige in the next episode. If she's trying to seduce him, then she's the most inept seductress in SoCal.
     
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  18. Seaviewer

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    I always thought that they had left the door open for Val's return but apparently it was originally intended that she really be dead. They even asked Joan to come back just to film that scene. It's lucky she didn't or those final two episodes would not have been possible.
     
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  19. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh yeah it sure was lucky that Joan turned down that one episode offer to guest star. I guess she didn't want her character to be killed off and in the end it all worked out for the best. :)

    So tonight it was "Bye, bye love".
    The best part of the episode was when Mack asked Gary to film him handing over the money to Mary and the battery of the video camera run out! :hl:
    That was actually funny and I loved it how Gary stole that German tourists battery instead and the man kept jumping in front of him when he tried to film Mack and Mary!

    I was not happy when I realized that Vanessa is still on the show. I thought we had gotten rid of the character when she got that job at the Tv station. But unfortunately Vanessa and her bad accent are here to stay! :(

    Claudia fooled Mack into signing a check for 1 million dollars but only gave him half the money since she intends to use the other half to open a restaurant with Nick.

    Paige new boyfriend gets an offer to play ball in Japan. He loves Paige and wants to stay but she doesn't love him. So I guess he'll go.

    I liked how Karen and Gary talked about Val. It's sweet how she is looking out for Gary and the twins and tries to help out. She is a true friend.

    I miss Greg and Anne who are still on their honeymoon. I didn't miss Kate though. But yeah the way the characters are not in all of the episodes is a sure sign that it's the last season since there are obviously budget cuts.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
  20. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    September 2004
    So I got a happy surprise when I watched last night's episode. Tom Ryan is back! :spinning:
    I don't know why but for some reason I had completely forgotten about that. But it seems like they are sort of aware of that he was one of the best love interests for Paige since he keeps coming back all the time. ;)

    Anyway the episode title "Some Like It Hot" is obviously a throwback to the Marilyn Monroe movie with the same name.

    Also Betsy doesn't like it that Kate joins them for ice-cream since she is waiting for her mom to come back. It's odd but she is right. Her mom is not really gone. I think the first hint of that came in the episode before when Joe told Mary that he had kidnapped Val and that everyone in the car got killed. He didn't say that Val got killed specifically. Of course Mary is now dead and can't tell anyone what she knows. Also has anyone else noticed how in last season Joe was supposed to be Mary's son when Val started looking for him and then all of a sudden this season it's her brother instead?:think:

    I guess they decided not to add a brother for Laura to the mix!

    So tonight it was "The Invisible Man".

    For some reason I had completely forgotten about that Mary ended up dead or that Mack was arrested for his murder. But it brought Tom back on the show, at least temporary so I am happy. :)

    I think the best dialogue in tonight's epsiode was:

    "Was that business or pleasure?" Greg in reference to Tom.

    "Both, it was my pleasure and it's none of your business!" Paige quipped back. :D

    I also really enjoyed the little cheesy music video that they had cut together of Paige and Tom when he heard the song "We only just begun" come on the radio. :love4:It was a cute moment and I found myself waiting for something more to happen when he showed up at her doorstep at 2 a.m. But she just slapped his face when he tried to kiss her. Yet she doesn't seem totally uninterested so we'll see where this goes. Just too bad that I already know that Paige will end up with Greg in the end. I would have preferred for her and Tom to end up together.

    I like how Gary is all supportive of Karen now when Mack is arrested. Yet he can't pose bail. But Greg can so Mack will be out in the next episode. I loved how Karen was so eager to pick him up that she was about to leave in her pajamas until Meg pointed it out to her! :lol:

    Oh and the budget cuts are still visible. In tonight's episode which was directed by Kevin, we didn't see Mack, Anne or Claudia. Mack's absense was a bit odd considering that the last episode finished with that he was arrested. :(

    Still I am enjoying the episodes more than I thought I would at this point. :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
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