Rewatching Knots Landing

Discussion in 'Knots Landing' started by Karin Schill, Sep 22, 2017.

  1. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh yeah he definitely was. One one hand he loved Val and he didn't want to move on since he'd feel like he'd be cheating on her (which was exactly what he ended up doing) and on the other hand he needed someone and Kate was there. He didn't want to take advantage of her but she wouldn't take no for an answer so he tried to convince himself that he could fall in love with her but it didn't work.

    Despite the loopholes I am really glad that Val came back and Abby too. Although it was never really addressed what her role was in Val's kidnapping. Did she know about it?
    Her partner apparently was behind it. So are we to believe he never said anything to Abby? :think:

    So tonight we reached the end of our Knots Landing re-watch with "Just Like Old Times Part II".
    (or almost end since there is of course the reunions to watch:D)

    Anyway I think this episode wrapped up things rather nicely and gave us an over all happy ending to the show that we've been following for so many years. So as a fan I was mostly happy with the way things ended. :gotcha:

    Gary and Val were back together with their kids and Gary even said his old line "Give us a kiss". :kiss:I love the scene where the twins are reunited with Val and how Betsy knew instinctively what it was even before Gary told them. So sweet. :love4:

    I also love how Karen and Mack got into an argument about their relationship and then ended up kissing and making up since they are not an old married couple. It was so them that it made me laugh. :giggle:

    I think Kate got what she deserved when Gary told her Val was back. I couldn't feel sorry for her. It's also interesting how she told her mom she wishes Val had never returned and yet when she is faced with Val she tells her she is glad she is back. That conversation was so awkward. But I don't agree that Kate didn't get a good ending since she was going to go back to school. I think that would have been a good thing for her considering that she was still so young. So at this point it's easy to imagine that Kate has learnt her lesson from her relationship with Gary and will head back to school where she will meet someone new who will be the right man for her. Since obviously Gary wasn't it. She never would have gotten burnt if she hadn't been so pushy and she realized it herself. I like how she and Val exchanged polite words at the end though. There was no bitterness, no hostile feelings since they both wanted what was best for Gary and the kids.

    I loved Abby coming back and trying to take over the Sumner group. It made sense that she was behind that one. I like how she tried to black mail Greg and he blackmailed her right back. I think the two of them were a perfect match in some ways. :rlol:

    Vanessa killed Treadwell to save Nick's life and got away with it since it was self-defense. Good riddance.

    Anne and Nick was leaving together to go to Europe but Claudia showed up making it look more like a triangle than a happy ending for Anne and Nick.

    Paige was going to marry Tom until Anne told her to follow her heart. *sigh* I remember the first time I watched this I was so annoyed that she ended up with Greg since he was not right for her. I wanted her to marry Tom. What sucks is we didn't even get to see the scene where she told Tom that she wouldn't marry him. There just was no scene between them at all this episode. :(

    Then as for the final scene. I love it how a newlywed couple moves into Laura's house since the show has now come full circle, considering that in the first episode the newlyweds were Gary and Valene. Also Abby moving back into her old house. I loved Karen, Mack, Val and Gary's reactions. Val like walking up to her man showing Abby that "back off, he is mine and I am not going to make the same mistake again." :giggle:

    The show then close on Karen's face. I wonder who got the first scene of the show?
    I can't seem to recall it right now.

    But yeah the show got a happy ending and as a fan I am pleased. Now I just wish that Dallas would have gotten the same kind of closure. I think it's always better when long running shows know in advance that they won't be back so they are able to wrap up their storylines in a way that is satisfying to their loyal fans.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
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  2. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Also since we've reached the end of season 14 here is my thoughts of it.

    I loved:

    - That Val didn't die and came back at the end.
    I love that Gary and Val got their happy ending since they were the only couple who started out together that ended up together. So in many ways they were the couple of the show.

    - That Abby came back for the end.
    I have missed Donna. It was fun to see Abby up to her scheming ways.

    - Tom Ryan coming back.
    I do think he was the one who got away for Paige. I think the reason I think that is because Greg ruined their wedding. Otherwise they would have gotten married.

    - Karen and Mack reconciliation
    They belong together. Pure and simple as that.

    I liked:

    - Anne and Greg's marriage
    The two of them were entertaining to watch together as they sort of deserved each other.

    - Karen visiting Diana in New York
    Diana seems to have grown up. It was nice to see Karen being on better terms with her after all this time.

    - Anne and Nick
    I always liked them.

    - Claudia and Nick
    They worked too as a couple. But I don't understand why she would want to be with him considering that she knew what a theif he was from the beginning. It wasn't even that she loved him. So it seemed rather dumb.

    - Mary trying to get visitation rights to Meg
    It provided an interesting plot for Karen and Mack. It didn't fit with what we knew about Laura previously but I buy this retcon since it added good drama.

    - Mack being arrested for Mary's murder

    This was also a good plot. I like how it alienated Karen and Mack and brought Tom back to the show.

    - Paige, Claudia, Karen & Mack running the Sumner Group
    This is an interesting set up. I just wish they had done more with it as the potentials for conflicts were great.

    I disliked:

    - Vanessa
    The character overstayed her welcome. I thought we were rid of her early on but then she came back and she even managed to make Nick and Tom boring!

    - Treadwell
    Boring character, boring big bad.

    - Gary moving on so fast with Kate after Val's "death"
    I think I've already said everything that needs to be said about why I didn't like this pairing.

    Over all I found this season a bit dull. I missed Val a lot as the show was not the same without her. I also think it was noticable that the show was suffering from budget cuts since the main cast took turns being in different episodes and ended up missing at certain times. They did their best to work around it but it was still noticable. So this was the worst season of Knots Landing IMHO and it was time to wrap it up and let go. :(

    But the show have had a great run and I applaud David Jacobs for creating a "spin-off" that ended up running one season longer on TV than it's parent show. That is really an accomplishment. :hat:
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
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  3. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I just realized something else. In the scene where Gary and Valene are talking he tells her something along the lines of that he's never loved anyone like he loved Valene and that means that they have come full circle too since that's what Valene told him in "Reunion Part II" as they were saying goodbye.
     
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  4. Daniel Avery

    Daniel Avery Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Sid was seen driving up into the cul-de-sac. He emerged from his car obviously sick with a cold/flu/something. Laura is in her yard and asks Sid if he's still feeling badly or something equally innocuous, and I believe he sneezed or something as if to answer her question. Laura said something to the effect that he should go inside and go to bed so Karen could make him some soup or something. I believe we saw Gary and Val's moving van/helpers moving stuff into the house but the Val/Gary/Bobby scenes came after the Laura/Sid scene. I may be remembering out of order, though.
     
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  5. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Okay so tonight I watched "The Block Party"...

    I think it was an interesting documentary that is a product of it's time. It relied heavily on clips from the show and I guess if you have followed the show for 14 years and haven't watched those scenes in reruns since it is a great way to go down memory lane. But if you've rewatched the show recently in like 1 ½ years time you do remember all of the scenes well since you've just seen them and they don't have the same impact on you. Yet I will give them this, they chose excellent scenes to showcase the show. All of them were memorable.

    I think it's touching somehow that a father had learnt from Knots Landing not to beat his son and told Kevin so. That's when TV can make an impact and change people's lives for the better. :)

    It was great to see Constance, Lisa and Julie again. :)
    Watching the actresses made me realize how much I have missed their characters since they left the show. Constance did let us know that it wasn't her choice to leave and that she wasn't prepared for it. I think it's sad that they let her and Julie go due to budget cuts. They did leave a whole in the show that couldn't be filled with any of the new characters.

    I could tell that parts of the documentary was scripted since the actresses were obviously reading voice overs that would fit with the clips that they were showing.

    On a couple of occasions I could hear airplanes going over the cul-de-sac in the background. :rlol:

    It was a nice touch to have the voices of the fans who had watched the show and some of their comments sprinkled in with the cast and clips. I wish we had gotten to see a bit more of the interviews though as it would have been interesting to hear more what the cast had to say about their experiences on the show. As it was now they just scratched the surface a little bit. But I guess there wasn't time for more.

    Loved it how Jacobs wanted to do art and Filerman wanted to do trash. I guess Knots Landing is a bit of both! ;)

    Finally on a whole I think it shone through that the cast and also the producers were grateful for everything the show had given them and also sad that Knots Landing was going off the air since that meant they wouldn't get to see each other that often anymore and yes that's always sad when something that's been important in your life is coming to an end.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
  6. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson drilling for soap

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    That's how I feel about season 13, but I got the impression that most fans prefer the second half.
     
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  7. Seaviewer

    Seaviewer Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    I had the impression that Abby had left Treadwell in charge of certain projects while she was busy with other things. It seemed odd that he was suddenly fearful of her after all he had done but maybe she had something over him.
    I liked how Betsy always believed that her mother was alive the same way Val had believed the twins were alive when everyone told her they were dead.

    I think she was genuinely conflicted. If I remember rightly, she was ashamed that she wished that about Val. It's possible to feel that and still know that it's for the best.
    It didn't occur to me that Abby was actually moving back. She calls it Claudia's house and remarks that it's for sale. I thought she was just teasing them until I saw the reunion.

    But all in all, I still count it as the best series finale ever.
     
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  8. Daniel Avery

    Daniel Avery Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Imagine if Karen had not found the twins, and they remained with the Fishers--would Betsy have gone for all those years yelling "You're not my real mommy! I want my real mommy and daddy!" every day and night? THAT would have gotten annoying after a while.
     
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  9. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I am sure it would have. I am so glad that the twins were found though. They belonged with Val and Gary.

    Glad that I am not the only one who thought that about season 13. It really was better before the "re-tooling". ;)

    Oh I agree. It definitely is one of the best ones I've ever seen! :)
    Although I must say that Friends also had a really good ending. ;)

    You are right about Betsy and Val. I like it too how they wouldn't give up on each other.

    Okay so tonight it was "Back to the Cul-de-sac part I"...

    Loved the opening credits with the old clips. Yikes it's been 18 years since the show first came on the air and it shows. Even the kids looks older now.

    Poor Peggy not getting paid for 5 weeks. It can't be easy working for Mack when he's having yet another mid-life crisis. :re:
    I've heard about the seven year itch before but not the 15 years one. I feel bad for Karen and Meg that he's left them again.

    Poor Meg found out that Greg was her natural father the exact wrong way. :( I guess she's like 13 now. Also too bad they changed the actress. Meg always had Laura's red hair. Now she doesn't all of a sudden. Kind of like Bobby and Betsy went from being very blond to light brown hair.

    I loved the anniversary party though and how everybody was there. It was nice to see Ginger, Michael, Olivia, Diana and Brian again. It makes sense that the kids would be there for the party. :)

    I am not surprised that Paige left Greg because she wanted to have a child. Their relationship was clearly a dead-end-road.

    It was sort of funny how Anne just came back and moved back in with Greg like if she'd never left. A psychic huh? :lol:

    Val is getting to know the worst of Hollywood. That writer they paired her with was just awful. Drinking all the time, trying to seduce her and then taking credit for her work. Ugh. I don't know why but he reminded me of Danny. Or maybe I know why since he ended up the same way as Danny. :eek:

    Then there is Kate with Molly who is four. Poor Val when the penny dropped. It was a complication she did not want or need. Actually Gary was not thrilled either. He told Kate he didn't want more kids. So his reaction was just "Damn!"
    Luckily for Kate she's found herself a slightly younger man who does want her and her child. It is nice to see Brian again. Although he looks exactly like David in Beverly Hills 90210 in this one. ;)

    However I must say that the best part about this reunion so far is Abby. I love it how she owes back taxes and works with Gary and Karen but schemes with Greg behind their backs and also how she moved in with Karen and asked about the towels. It was just hilarious! :laugh1:

    So well to sum up, seems like nothing's ever changes on Seaview Circle... ;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
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  10. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Tonight it was "Back to the Cul-de-sac" Part II...

    My favorite part of the episode was how Meg finally got her message from her dying mother. Laura's tape. :cry:
    Only bad thing was, we didn't get to see it on the TV. Didn't Constance McCashin allow them to use the original tape?

    Yet it was nice to see how Meg finally got to know that Laura was her mother. It was touching how she broke down and cried. I also liked how Greg told her that he had always loved her and that's why he wanted Karen and Mack to raise her. It was a touching moment and something that the viewer has waited to watch since Laura made the tape for Meg some 10 years ago. Also Greg rewatching his tape. He still misses Laura. She was the wife he married for love, unlike Abby and Anne.

    Val and Gary had some problems too but worked them out on a scene that took place on the beach, where else? :cool1
    Bobby was acting like a typical Ewing beating those kids at school. I can see a resemblance between him and his relatives in Dallas.

    Anne and Greg's relationship puzzles me. Did she and Greg not finalize their divorce?
    Because it was like she came back to the ranch and just moved in. Just like she never left and Carlos still referred to her as Mrs. Sumner.

    Of course Abby's plan backfires on her but she still lands on her feet when Greg offered her to handle his business in Thailand.

    The story with the guy who messed up when he was going to steal the document doesn't really fit with what we knew about Abby in college. I mean her story with Charles. Also Karen knew Abby in college. Oh well at least she hasn't lost her skills to mess with a car engine.

    Karen and Mack kiss and make up too. :kiss:

    And then we reach the end where Kate is pregnant with Brian's child. Karen has about two minutes to gloat that Abby will be a grandma before Michael shows up and reveals that she is going to become a grandma too! Hilarious! rotf

    Gary and Val does a high five behind Brian's back. Yet in my mind I can't help but wondering if they aren't already grandparents at this point?
    I guess it depends on if Lucy's had a child born in the 1990s. I think it's quite plausible that she has although it's something we don't know for sure as it was never addressed on the new Dallas if she had any kids.

    Anyway I love that it once again end on a happy note. :)
     
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  11. Daniel Avery

    Daniel Avery Super Moderator Staff Member

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    That whole situation left a mark on this TV-movie (some would say it left a "big, black dot"). Though Constance McCashin was compensated for her performance when "Laura" made those videos, the performances became the property of the producers. However....if the producers want to take a part of an episode (in this case, the videos Laura made) and use them to produce a new project (this TV-movie), they have to ask the permission of the actors involved, and if the actors need to be "convinced" to say yes, then the producers may negotiate some kind of payment. It was said at the time that they went to McCashin to ask permission and she said they could use the material--if they would foot the bill for her daughter's college. I'm still on the fence as to whether she was serious or if it was just her way of saying "Hell no" by making a ridiculously high demand. The producers in 1986-7 had really pulled the proverbial rug out from under her when they fired her while pregnant with said daughter, so maybe she wanted to remind them that firing her that way could have (maybe did--who knows?) adversely affected her pregnancy.

    Short version: she'd made an offer the producers could apparently refuse. In most cases where an actor refuses permission, they simply do some script revisions and work around the "missing" material. For whatever reason, they didn't do that--they just put a giant dot over Constance's face when they showed Meg watching the tape, and had some woman who sounded nothing like Constance reading the script aloud. The night that aired, I was baffled by the big dot over her face, the kind of thing the evening news does to hide the identity of a witness in court. "Meg" seemed not to notice the dot, even as she watched the tape, which took me out of what should have been an important scene. This told me that perhaps they had the child actress watch and react to the "real" tape because they assumed they'd eventually come to a compromise with McCashin at some point. When they did not come to a deal, they sloppily (perhaps pissed-off-edly) gave her face the big black dot treatment.
     
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  12. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    The way that they handled her exit is really sad. I think that letting Constance and also Julie go was a mistake as the show was never the same without them. :(

    I never saw the big dot over Laura's face that you talked about though. The way the episode was edited when I watched it they never showed her face at all. We just heard the voice over and reacted to the fact that it sounded different. :(
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2018
  13. Mustard

    Mustard Soap Chat Fan

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    I originally thought that Douglas Sheehan's departure was linked to the Season 9 budget cuts too, but apparently he had to really be persuaded to stay on in Season 8, hence why Ben was suddenly given a dark past that season. I think Doug thought at the end of Season 7 that the Ben character had gone as far as he could. He did Season 8, and with the way that Ben left, one had the impression that Ben would definitely be back again, yet he never did come back, probably because of budget cuts. The cuts are clearly going deeper again in Season 12, and then again in Season 14.
     
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  14. Seaviewer

    Seaviewer Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    No doubt. ;)

    Yes, I did think that was one too many.
    Laura actually made a box full of tapes for Meg to watch at different stages of her life. It might have been better if they'd played one meant for her at this age. The new voice might not have been so jarring then either.
    I never saw a dot either. Only the back of the TV set.
     
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  15. Daniel Avery

    Daniel Avery Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I ought to drag out the VCR and rewatch this tape (if it is still in any condition to be watched after all this time). I taped it from the original broadcast* and I recall being scandalized by how poorly they handled this whole portion of the cul-de-sac (not just "notLaura," but how poorly cast I thought Meg was). I can't find the miniseries on YT at all, except for one or two short clips.

    * I recall being in the middle of some heavy-duty studying and research projects in grad school around that time. I normally would have just watched it live and been happy, but I was so distracted that I watched it while also taping it, then went back and watched it again to pick up all the details I had been too distracted to notice.
     
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  16. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Cool let us know if you find it. Also I agree with you about Meg. She was badly recasted. :(

    I think they ruined Ben's character in season 8. The whole Jean Hackney thing was so annoying. :(
    But yeah I also think he decided to leave the show rather than was being let go.

    Good point. If the other messages were ever filmed yes it would have made more sense to use one that was for age 12. But since I doubt they filmed the other messages they had to go with what we knew and since the audience was already familiar with that particular video tape message it does come full circle and add a sadness to it.

    Okay so tonight we watched "Knots Landing Reunion: Together Again"...

    I love this reunion. It's close to 90 minutes of Knots goodies and they even got Alec Baldwin, Julie Harris (then in her 80s) and Don Murray to participate. :)
    Nicholette Sheridan participated too even though she was at the height of her Desperate Housewives (2004-2012) fame at the time which just shows that she never forgot where she came from and the show was important to her. My guess is that the reason she didn't appear with the others when they filmed the group footage was probably due to conflicts in schedules.

    Anyway in this special we get to see Michele Lee, Joan van Ark, Ted Shackelford, Kevin Dobson, Donna Mills, William Devane, Lisa Hartman Black and Michelle Phillips get together and reminisce about their time on the show. We get to see Ted & Joan talk about Gary and Val, Michele & Kevin talk about Karen & Mack. Those two were by far the main couples on the show and I loved what they said about their characters and their relationships with each other. :)

    William & Donna also talk a bit about Abby and Greg and being bad on the show. The ladies talk in two groups about fashions on the show and about friendships and being working moms on the show. Abby is credited with hitting that glass ceiling, meaning that she was a woman in a man's world and she made it, which is great. The only sad thing about it is how women in the 1980s were portrayed as using sex to make it. Like a woman (like Abby and Paige) can't make it in a man's world if she isn't sexy and sleeps around. :censer: I think in the #me too era that is just wrong on so many levels! :(

    Don Murray's interview sheds some light on why he left the show. It is hinted at that he thought he had a movie career ahead of him. Mack was brought in by the producers to attract a male audience to the show. They needed a guy they could identify with.

    I wish they had included a bit more of Julie Harris talking with the group, as although her surprise visit was nice and I loved the cast's reactions to seeing her as it is very clear that she was very much loved by her co-stars, it seems like it was slightly a waste to bring her in and then not let her say much. Especially since they kept this mystery guest for the very last. It was like the audience was waiting for her to show up and then when she finally did the show was already over. :(

    I also think it was a bit sad that they never mentioned Kim Lankford and James Houghton, although their characters of Ginger and Kenny might not be all that memorable they were original cast members and it's like they never appeared on the show at all.

    Moreover I really wish they could have gotten Constance McCashin to join them and John Pleshette. I missed those two more than Ginger and Kenny. Especially since Laura was on the show much longer.

    Yet I do think this documentary has lots going for it. It reunites most of our favorite characters/cast from the show. We get to see them interact with each other on the cul-de-sac like if they'd never left. We learn some funny facts that we've never knew before like for instance how the network thought Abby was having an orgasm in the hot tub scene every time Richard touched her when Donna in reality was just shivering from the cold water. rotf

    We get to see some hilarious bloopers. :rlol:

    We get a music video collage of sorts with lots of hugs and sweet moments from the show towards the end. The song used is "Open Arms" which was the first song Lisa sang on the show. So cute. :)

    The clips and conversations all match each other perfectly in a way that makes me actually wonder about the way this documentary was created. I mean when I first watched this back in 2005 I was totally excited about just seeing them all together again so I thought that the conversations were completely natural. However watching it now I am sure some of it was scripted too, only question is how much?:think:

    Obviously the pieces when they were presenting things were scripted then as for the conversation pieces my guess would be that they had gotten some topics that they were going to talk freely around. Like maybe some key scenes or something. But yes the scenes and the conversations about particular storyarcs match really well. I guess it's possible that they taped the conversations first and then dug up the clips to match them in the editing. But it's also possible they were instructed to talk about particular scenes. Either way it's really brilliantly done and I think it shows that the way documentaries are done has evolved since the 1993 one, as I think this one surpasses it. :hat:

    In fact I love all three documentaries made by the same producers, the 2004 one about Dallas, this one and the Dynasty one from 2006. After those three I had expected them to make one about the final great prime time soap of the 1980s - Falcon Crest too but sadly they never did.

    Anyway back to this Knots Landing documentary, to sum up. I think this is a great documentary that is a real treat for the fans to watch. :clap:
    Only sad thing is it's the last thing on Knots Landing that's been made so now there's nothing more to watch and after 1 ½ years of revisiting the cul-de-sac I will miss watching one of my most favorite shows every day. :(

    In fact next year it's the 40th Anniversary since Knots Landing first came on the air. So I think that would be a perfect time to bring it back on the screen. :gotcha:
    I know for sure that I'd love to watch either an other documentary with the cast like this one or better yet a revival of the original show, not a reboot like the Dynasty one, but a continuation like the Dallas one! ;)
    But only if they get David Jacobs on board with it, since the key to a revivals' success is to get the original producers/writers on board too. I think that's why the new Dallas (2012-2014) didn't succeed with recapturing the success of the original, whereas the Fuller House one (2016 - ?) totally does and is still going strong after 3 ½ seasons.
    So if anyone who works at some tv network in Hollywood would be happening to be reading this thread, (not likely I know but still), please do bring the show back on the air! :cool1
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
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  17. Seaviewer

    Seaviewer Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    I copied mine to DVD and haven't rewatched since I did that. I think it may be time for another look. :) It was only ever shown here once but not until more than two years after its US screening so it may well be a different edit.
    No it would have had to be new material but since Constance was not participating anyway they could have put any voiceover on that scene.
    I'm sure you're right.
    This was never broadcast here but I've seen most of it on YouTube. Frankly, I prefer Block Party. I think they did a better job in half the time.

    Can't help but agree with that. :D
     
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