Rewatching Knots Landing

Discussion in 'Knots Landing' started by Karin Schill, Sep 22, 2017.

  1. Karin Schill
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    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Okay so we've now started watching season five.

    Yesterday was "The People vs. Gary Ewing" which was all about the trial. I've gotta say that Ben's first appearance on the show was rather strange. I know he's supposed to do the gentleman thing. But if some stanger just grabbed hold of me and pulled me into a broom clothes I wouldn't be too happy!
    But oh well at least it got Val away from those annoying reporters. Funny Ben is supposedly working on a news station, which makes those reporters his collegues or even employees...
    and yet they didn't act like it at the courthouse.

    Oh well at the end the looks between Gary & Val when the charges were dropped said more than a thoasand words...

    Then tonight it was "Fugitives"...

    Diana sure is in trouble now being on the run like that. She seemed appropriately scared when she realized that Chip was wanted for murder. I remember feeling sorry for her the first time I watched the show. This time not so much since I remember she's going to marry the guy even though she knows he's killed Ciji! :eck:

    Oh and Gary finally bought himself the ranch. You could tell that Abby was not pleased at the idea of moving out there. But she is going along with it since she doesn't want to lose Gary. She told him this episode that she loved him. Sometimes I think that she does and sometimes I wonder if she would still love him if he didn't have all that Ewing money...

    Yet it's clear that they are moving towards Gary/Abby's marriage and away from any chances of a Val/Gary reconciliation as they've introduced Ben as Val's new love interest. So far I like him. But the poor guy is gonna have to put up with a lot!
     
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  2. tommie

    tommie Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    I dunno
    Mack. Which is funny because most people would say he's Sid's replacement, but really. Mack and Richard fill the same position. I'm surprised more people didn't notice.

    LOL, well, when I'm friends and trust someone I just assume they won't lie or be dishonest with me. So I tend to take anything at face value. It's not exactly a good quality to have, but oh well! I like her, lesbian or not.
     
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  3. Seaviewer

    Seaviewer Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    I still don't think it was anything more than that.

    To me, the whole point was Richard's paranoia. It wouldn't make much sense if he was right.

    On the other hand, they do say that even paranoids have real enemies.
     
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  4. Mustard
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    Mustard Soap Chat Active Member

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    With Ciji and Laura, you can look at it both ways. Either Ciji and Laura are just friends, and Richard is just being paranoid. Or, Ciji and Laura are having a relationship and Richard's suspicions hit at a truth. Either way, it fits. Ciji is that free spirit type who goes with the flow, and Laura is an empowered woman, which makes me believe that they could be having an affair.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
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  5. tommie

    tommie Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    I dunno
    Maybe they were having *dun dun dun* an EMOTIONAL affair.
     
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  6. Daniel Avery
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    Daniel Avery Super Moderator Staff Member

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    It was a catered affair. RSVP required.
     
  7. Willie Oleson
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    Willie Oleson drilling for soap

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    Even without considering the nature of their friendship, there's a difference between a friend and a person who is always there. (see Rant Room topic)
    I cheered when Richard kicked her out, good riddance!
     
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  8. Karin Schill
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    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Wow! I never would have thought of Mack as Richard's replacement. Maybe it's because they had one whole season when they were both on the show. But somehow the characters strikes me as very different. Although workwise I guess they fill a sort of similar role and they can give legal advice etc.

    Then as for Ciji and Laura, I think Richard was just being paranoid. But in a way I can understand his reaction as Laura shut him out and turned to Ciji instead. It must have been frustrating for the guy. :(

    Anyway I've watched some more...

    ...And Never Brought To Mind...


    The situation with Lilimae and Chip is so over the top that it's sort of laughable. Yet Julie Harris does a great job with the material she's been given as she makes it seem believable that Lilimae would do such a thing as to run Chip down with the car to get justice.

    I liked how both Gary and Ben showed up at the jail to be of emotional support to Val. How awkward with both men there sort of competing for her attention.
    But it's Ben who brings her home. Only later that night Lilimae disappears and walks in on Gary & Abby in bed together! :giggle:
    I swear I had forgotten about that detail but it's hilarious. Gary then drives Lilimae home and ends up spending the night with Val. Sort of funny how he walked from one woman to the other. Only difference is that now it's technically Abby he's cheating on as his divorce with Val is through. I guess that's poetic justice.

    I remember the first time I watched the show I thought Val and Gary were on the path of a reconciliation here. Now of course I know better...

    Meanwhile Karen is still trying to reach Diana but the stubborn teenager keeps pushing her away. Diana is really annoying at this point. :(

    Sacred Vows

    At first it seems like Gary is chosing to be with Val as he offers to go with her to the doctors to help with Lilimae and offer emotional support. They decide on a meeting. But then Laura butts in and makes Gary realize that the kindest thing to do is to let Val go if he is not serious with her.

    Apparently he's not as in the next second he stands Val up at the cafe and he's marrying Abby. I love the way their wedding is cut crossed with Val leaving Lilimae at the loonybin. Such contrasts and I can't help but feeling sorry for Val as leaving Lilimae at the sanatarium is obviously very difficult for her and yet she's in for even more heartbreak when she calls Gary only to find out that he's gotten married to Abby. The way this is filmed and edited makes it pretty obvious to me that you are supposed to root for Val and Gary to be together!

    Abby and Gary are happy on their honeymoon and Abby tells Gary that she's wanted him from the moment she first saw him. You know that I can believe as she was flirting with him already back then. Only Gary wasn't interested at all at first...

    Meanwhile Eric finally makes Diana see the light by reminding her that their dad died for doing what he thought was right. It's a good thing he can't see her protecting a murderer. Diana then talks to the police as she wants to do the right thing like her dad did.

    Finally the episode ends with the Ciji look alike showing up at the hotel. Gary can barely believe his eyes when he sees her. Her hair is blonder but it's Lisa Hartman alright. I guess she's been brought back in another role due to popular demand... :)
     
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  9. tommie

    tommie Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    I dunno
    Maybe Mack was a mixed fill-in - the legalise of Richard and the wiseness of Sid? Sort of like how series like Wentworth ended up mixing Prisoner Cell Block H characters together. A first example ey.

    Get used to endless episodes of them trying to cram in Lisa Hartman singing! I do like Lisa, but it became so contrived eventually that they *had* to have her sing something by the end of the episode. The first 30 or so aren't bad I guess.
     
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  10. Karin Schill
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    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh yeah I get what you are saying about Lisa's singing. Yet all the exposure they gave her on the show totally made me fall in love with her music. I just had to have her albums. So I've got them all on CD today and before that I found a fan who was willing to copy them onto two cassette tapes for me. Heck I even taped over all of Lisa's songs from the show to a cassette tape the first time I watched it. So I didn't mind her singing back then. :D
     
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  11. Karin Schill
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    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Yesterday I watched the episode "Denials"...

    So Tony/Chip is dead after falling on the pitchfork when he saw Cathy. I can't say I'm sorry to see him go as I was getting fed up with Diana and Chip's storyline.

    The shock of Chip's death finally brings Lilimae out of her state of mind and she realizes how wrong she was when she tried to kill him and what an awful thing she's done. Julie Harris is wonderful in this scene and also in the scene where she's standing at Chip's casket with the tears falling down her cheek at the end. Such a poignant moment.

    Tony's sister shows up in town and has an argument with Diana at the funeral. She tries to make the woman see how much her brother has used her but Diana is still blinded by love.

    Mack, Val and Eric confronts Karen about her pill addiction but she refuses to listen...

    Meanwhile Gary follows Cathy to a bar where she starts singing with some friends. Just like Ciji..

    The tonight it was "Witness"...

    Val has fallen in love with Ben and is really happy and wants to be more committed to their relationship only to find out that she's three month's pregnant.

    She goes to tell Karen about it. But her best friend can't even listen as the pills has consumed her. So Val tries to tell Karen how much it hurts to see someone she loves being addicted to something. First Gary to the alcohol and now Karen to the pills. But Karen won't hear it.

    Val goes to talk to Mack about Karen and he also is the first to hear about her pregnancy. He reacts with happiness for Val and Ben but then when she says "and now he's married to someone else and I'm in love with someone else..."

    It dawns on Mack. "Gary's baby?" Mack is still thrilled for Val and acts like the supportive friend.

    I remember the first time I saw this episode I cheered when I heard that Val was having Gary's baby. I wanted Gary and Val together and thought this might bring them back together. Of course it didn't as Val kept the whole thing a secret from Gary like forever. But anyway I was delighted about this soap pregnancy.

    At the end Val meets Gary but she didn't tell him about the baby. She could have but she didn't and their whole conversation is just awkward.

    Meanwhile Abby is handling the business behind Gary's back and sleeping around with Greg. At this point it feels like she never loved Gary at all but is only using him. Like she married him for the money. It seems to me like they are changing Abby's character a bit as she is more greedy than she was in the beginning...

    Greg's wife is in town too. She knows he is two timing her but allows it. Their marriage seems to be in name only.

    Val also lets Lilimae read her new script "Nashville Junction" about Lilimae as a teenager. Mother and daughter seems closer than in a long time and Lilimae even makes an attempt to get to know Ben.

    Mack is investigating the Wolfbridge group and Sumner is annoyed since "the voters don't care about organized financial crime. They just care that nobody burglars their house." I think he has a point. But yeah he's a dirty politician for sure.

    That's all for now.
     
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  12. Karin Schill
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    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Okay so tonight it was "Secrets Cry Aloud"...

    Karen's pill addiction is quickly spinning out of control as her pills run out and she fails to give a keynote speech where she is supposed to introduce Greg Sumner. Desperate to get her hands on some pills she tries to raid Lilimae's medicine cabinet only for Val to tell her that Lilimae didn't get any of those pills to take home.

    Karen is so out of it when she comes home that she doesn't even notice that their house has gotten broken into by the Wolfbridge group...Mack won't let himself get scared off by them. He wants to nail the bastards.

    Meanwhile St. Clair shows up at Abby's office and wants to become her partner in Lotus Point. But Abby doesn't like that idea at all. :mad:

    Karen then calls her doctor and lies that she's lost her pills and incrediously he calls in her receipe so her prescription is refilled just like that! :eck:
    I think it's sick how easy doctors makes it for patients to get addicted to pills! :(

    Meanwhile Lilimae finds out that Val is pregnant and assumes that Ben is the father. So she goes there to bury the hatchet with him and he finds out about the pregnancy. Poor Ben is shocked at first but after giving it some thought he is thrilled to become a father. When he and Val talks later that night he tells her all the things he wants to do with his child. He even puts his hand on Val's stomach and says that he already loves this baby.

    Poor Val is forced to tell him that he ain't the father of her baby but Gary is. Such a heartbreaking moment for both Val and Ben. :(
    You know the first time around I didn't like Ben much. Probably because I wanted Gary and Val together. But this time around Ben has really grown on me. I like him better and I feel sorry for the guy. He has to put up with a lot because he loves Val.

    Gary and Cathy spend the night at a ranch where they are looking to buy a horse but Gary won't cheat on Abby since he wants his marriage to work!
    Of course he has no idea that Abby is already cheating on him with Greg Sumner... :p
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  13. Daniel Avery
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    Daniel Avery Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, they know not to do such things today, but back in this time period people in general were more naïve about drug addiction, or at least wanted to keep their head in the sand. Pharmacists would be inclined to believe their customer when they claimed they dropped their pills down the sink, at least if the customer didn't keep using that excuse over and over. It's just that prescription drug addiction/abuse was not the epidemic that it is now, and a lot of people didn't even regard prescription drug addiction with the same alarm as they did "street drug" problems. After all, a doctor gave these people those drugs, so they must be okay to take them, right? A doctor wouldn't give people stuff that would hurt them, right? (At least that's the thought process that so many had to overcome) One part of this story that I'm sure they wanted to get across to the viewers is that even a respected, upstanding member of the community can become addicted to drugs, and those drugs might not come from illegal sources (well, at first). Pharmacists have long since been pressured to treat these drugs as "controlled substances," with a myriad of safeguards and rules regarding how they are dispensed and to whom. Back when this was going on, I dare to say a lot of doctors thought "a pill is a pill," and cared more about curing the patient's immediate illness with less regard for the effects of the medications used to get them "well".

    Random thought: Ben might be a professional reporter, but Lilimae's got him beat when it comes to spreading news in record time. Keep in mind, though--she does not know (nor WILL she know) Gary is the twins' father for several seasons.
    Register or to view Spoiler content!
     
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  14. Karin Schill
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    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Right about Lilimae she sure had Ben beat on spreading the "news". rotf

    I'm glad to hear that doctors have gotten better about prescription drugs. I guess it was different back in the 1980s. I mean to recommend a person to take the pills as needed instead of to write max 3 pills/day was not very smart!

    So tonight it was "Forsaking all others"...

    It was an excellent episode with a lot of focus on the MacKenzie's...

    We start with Mack leaving Karen at the drug rehab. Poor Karen is so addicted that she needs to go into rehab and is suffering from withdrawal. :(

    Then there's Greg and the Wolfbridge group. Mack hands over his material to the DA but he won't prosecute since Greg is forced to throw Mack to the Woolves. This really showed how dirty politics works and how the people with the money control politicians like puppets...

    So Greg is stuck between a rock and a hard place and he choses to sacrifice his friend from college. Mack is surprised to be axed like that as he finds out from watching TV and to make matters more tensed he's watching Greg's announcement together with Greg's wife and daughter. They are all just caught in the middle of it.

    Also by outing Lotus Point Gary and MacKenzies has now found out about the development plans that Abby had tried so hard to keep away from them.

    Laura is totally on Abby's side as they have mutual business interests, but still came to the hospital to leave a flower for Karen but she didn't go in.

    Diana seems to have been written out of the show just like that. As she's now in New York. I wonder why she was dropped?

    Val tried to tell Gary about the babies but he wasn't listening.

    Akward moment with Val and Ben in that elevator.

    Greg's ploy paid off and he won his primary election. His wife and daughter stands by him although they think he treated Mack wrong.
    The closing shot shows the MacKenzies' watching his triumph on TV instead of being there with them. They are temporary frozen out into the cold.

    So yeah tonight's episode was great and it was interesting how it was all tied together, Greg's dirty politics, Wolfbridge group, Lotus Point...It all exploded tonight and I look forward to find out what's gonna happen next. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  15. Mustard
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    Mack and Greg have a great dynamic in Knots Landing. We have Mack who remains the incorruptible crusader, against Greg who has given up all that idealism to become the very corruptible arch-pragmatist. Are they friends or enemies? A certain affection for their old friendship never completely goes away, even when Mack is hating Greg.
     
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  16. Karin Schill
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    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    True about Mack and Greg. They were friends and I guess when they were younger they were more alike than now. Greg has sold out for power. He's a puppet on a string, doing what he's supposed to in order to get elected. But Mack is still looking for what's right. Sometimes I'm not sure if they are friends or enemies. I guess with friends like Greg Sumner you don't need enemies! ;)

    Tonight it was "Lest The Truth Be Known".

    Ben and Val have suddenly made up and Ben asks Val to go with him to El Salvador.
    Oddly enough I found myself nodding in agreement when Ben talked about going to underdeveloped countries and how it makes you appreciate what you have so much more. I can totally identify with Ben this time around and I'm amazed. I didn't like him much the first time around. But this time around he's quickly becoming a favorite. :)
    I like that he's so wordly and yet so grounded. He is a nice guy who's curious about the world and wants to tell a good story. I disagree with him about one thing though, I don't think it's a good idea for Val to travel to an underdeveloped country when she's pregnant. She's wanted another child for a long time so it's dumb to take unnecessary risks.

    Laura is threatened by Marc Saint Claire after she says that he is behind Apolune. When she thinks about what happened to the Marcus' she is getting more and more frightened. At first she stands by Abby and lies but eventually she cracks and tells Mack and Karen that Abby is behind Apolune.

    Laura and Greg argues as they both wanted something uncomplicated and their relationship is already anything but...

    Ray is back and he's working for Abby I suppose. He wants Cathy back. Cathy cracks and tells Gary that she's been in prison for murder when he confronts her about why she has done time.

    Karen is back to her old self and Diana and Karen are finally back on good terms again.

    Abby has gotten in over her head with the Wolfbridge group but she doesn't realize it yet as she still thinks she can do business with them.
     
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  17. Karin Schill
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    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    So tonight it was "Silent Missions..."

    Again they play on the Gary and Val drama. When Ben goes missing in El Salvador Val is heartbroken and Gary shows up to show his support and then they share some phone conversations where it feels like Val is at the tip of her tongue to mention that the babies are Gary's. But somehow she never gets a chance to actually say it as their conversation is always interrupted just when the topic of the babies comes up...

    It's sort of annoying how Karen, Mack, Val and Ben know but not Gary and Lilimae.

    Then we have the ending with the shootout at Gary's ranch. I remember this and how they lead the viewers on to believe that Gary had died too. It left me puzzled the first time I saw it. But now I just think it feels a bit over the top and not as realistic or interesting as Ben going missing.

    Also what's with the Ewing brothers dying and coming back from the dead? :p
    First Gary dies and returns as he's faked his death, then Bobby dies and returns since it was all a dream and then finally JR stages his death and returns on that pigtruck to his own memorial. :Clol:
     
  18. Mustard
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    The difference with Gary compared to Bobby is that we didn't see him die on screen, and it's clear that Mack and Gary faked the death all along. There are clues even before this is revealed, like the absence of Texas Ewings at the funeral. Even J.R. would have been at Gary's funeral. Gary was also "dead" for 1 episode, not 31 episodes.

    I have to say it's interesting with Knots Landing how, despite how very over the top the storylines are when they are just read out on paper, the writing was so good that they feel as real as they could be for a TV drama series.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018 at 1:14 AM
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  19. Daniel Avery
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    In the Show In My Head (scenes I think should have happened, but just didn't play on screen), Gary called Miss Ellie to let her know that no matter what she heard on the news or saw in the papers, he was just pretending to be dead to play a trick on his wife. She just got that puzzled look on her face and said "Sure...okay..." and hung up. "Drunk again..." she sighed, and they faded to commercial.
     
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  20. Karin Schill
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    Oh yeah I guess they must somehow have kept the news of Gary's death from the Texas Ewings. Maybe Gary called them. Yet I think it's weird how he lead Val on to believe he was dead. I mean if he could deceive her he could as easily have deceived his Mama and brothers and daughter.

    I agree @Mustard that Gary's death episode was well played out. Yet I don't think it was just the writing that made it work. If anything I'd like to give an eloge to the actors. Especially Julie Harris, Joan Van Ark and Donna Mills. They totally sold me on this episode. Actually Tonya Crowe was really good too. Her reaction of anger and grief seems believable for a child her age. :clap:

    Seems like everyone had their own reactions. Val was hysterical. Abby was more angry. I guess Val understood that Gary and Abby must have loved each other since she knew what she and Gary had and if Gary left her for Abby he must have loved her more. At least I think that's how Val reasoned. She was so nice to Abby when she offered her sympathies. Abby was a bitch. I guess it's because she feels threatened by Val somehow and might fear she's in Gary's will. She wants to inherit it all. She's the widow so...

    I love that Laura told Val that Gary loved her but wanted her to move on.

    I think both Abby and Greg believe the Wolfbridge group killed Gary. Greg clearly lied to Laura to protect her when he said Wolfbridge weren't capable of murder.

    I also agree about the Texas Ewings. JR, Bobby, Miss Ellie and Lucy should definitely have been at Gary's funeral if he had been really dead. Maybe even Pam and Sue Ellen.

    The ending of the episode was annoying. I mean there are Val and Abby who are both grieving for Gary and there he is kissing Cathy! :mad:
    Yet I guess the viewer who had been lead on to believe he'd been dead for the past 40 minutes probably went :eyes:when they first saw him.

    Oh and Ben is alive. Very sick but alive! :spinning:

    Finally I couldn't help but noticing that this episode was directed by David Jacobs! :hat:
    I noticed one interesting angle in the scene with Laura and Sumner we watch them through the door, from a distance.
     
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