Rewatching Knots Landing

Discussion in 'Knots Landing' started by Karin Schill, Sep 22, 2017.

  1. Mustard

    Mustard Soap Chat Active Member

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    Bagpipes are synonymous with Scotland.

    The ending is excellently directed. The slow motion of "they're trying to take the babies" and Val's reaction, following by the zoom into a still picture of Val.
     
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  2. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Right you are! Of course I knew that. :giggle:
    I guess my mind must have been elsewhere last night when I wrote my review! :embarrassed:

    So tonight season seven kicked off with "The Longest Day"...

    I really love all the drama concerning Val's babies. She is really hysterical sitting outside of that house trying to get them back. Considering what she went through nobody can blame her.

    I think it's the fact that they go into so much detail and move the plot along slowly that allows you to really get underneath the skin of the characters and get emotionally wrapped up in their drama.

    I was glad to see that Laura has gone back to working at the real estate agency!
    Good for her taking control over her life again. :)

    The moment Abby told Gary about Bobby's death. :rip:
    It was like, "Right this happened at the same time as the dream season". I had almost forgotten about that in the middle of all the drama...
    It felt a bit odd though as we all know that Bobby didn't really die. Funny how Pam supposedly dreamt about Gary and Abby too considering she's never even met Abby!:Clol:
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
  3. Daniel Avery

    Daniel Avery Super Moderator Staff Member

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    So we have to ask*...at what point in "The Long and Winding Road" did we leave Knots Landing proper, and enter the dream world of Pam Ewing? I think a good spot would be when Abby and Val were in the car, when Abby had a silent freakout over Val choosing country music on the car radio (Has she slid back into Verna-ville? she must have thought). Everything after that--half the cast arriving at the Fishers' house, Harry taking off in the station wagon, etc.--is Pam's large-scale, multi-state, high production-value dream. Pam was just on a fractured astral plane where she watched the real events in Knots Landing occur as she also saw incorrect/twisted versions of the events occurring in Dallas. Pam can't be the only person to dream about people she's never met. I just wonder if she is the only person whose dreams include commercial breaks.

    * No, we don't really have to ask, but otherwise I'd have no reason to post this. :re:
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
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  4. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Well I think it probably changed to Pam Ewing's dream world when it turned into night. So Pam only dreamt that Val left the house in the middle of the night and went to see the babies and then that Gary got the news that Bobby had been taken to the hospital the next morning...

    Anyway watching this it's very clear what is happening in the paralell universe of the Ewings over in Dallas at the moment and I can see why Knots cut all the ties that bound them to the parent show after this. :lol:

    Tonight it was "Here in my arms"...

    Finally Val got her babies back. :ch:

    This is the moment we've been waiting for ever since her babies were stolen from her. But I must say that rewatching this as an adult I have more compassion for the Fishers than I originally did. I feel really bad for that poor couple too. I mean they are not bad people and they didn't know that the babies had been stolen from their natural mother. They thought their adoption was legal and that it was their kids. Like Val realized "She loves them and she's never giving them up."

    Of course Harry did the right thing when Karen talked to him and at the end of the day Karen is the one who gets to be there to reunite Val with her crying babies. Poor little ones must have felt it like they were taken from their parents at first. But luckily they are so young that soon they won't remember any other mother than Val.
     
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  5. Daniel Avery

    Daniel Avery Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Knots obviously changed their minds about the way they wanted the Fishers to be portrayed--or at least how they wanted Harry's role in the adoption to be depicted. You may recall Harry freaked out upon hearing the news that Dr. Ackerman had blown his head off. He suddenly realized the jig was up, that he and his family needed to get out of town quickly. He was in the process of getting them all out of town (getting a prescription for one of the kids? I forget) when all the KL folks descended on their house. All this desperation said to me that Harry knew those babies had been stolen/kidnapped, and that Harry had dealt with the evil Dr. Ackerman at some point in the past to get the babies. After they picked up (after the cliffhanger) the show ret-conned the whole situation to make it look like the attorney (Cavanaugh) had lied to Harry the whole time and that Harry was as much a victim of all the lies as everyone else. I guess it wasn't enough to make Sheila a victim in all this (being lied to by her husband)--they had to clean up Harry's role in the kidnapping to avoid the appearance of "conspiracy".
     
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  6. tommie

    tommie Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    I dunno
    I'm guessing they did this because they wanted a clean and nice break from the story - if Harry had known about it he needed to either die or be prosecuted for it or else it would've left a huge plot thread hanging in the air. I guess Sheila just suffered enough that they didn't want nasty Val to kill her husband too!
     
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  7. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Good observations about how the writer's changed the Fishers role in the kidnapping to make them victims in this situation too. I think they succeeded with making them likable since I feel really bad for them too. So I guess in a way this makes a better story than if they were just bad guys who were sent off to jail.

    Tonight it was "When the Cat's Away"...

    So we see Abby and Greg do business behind Gary's back while he's driving back to town. Gary gets back just in time so we think he's going to call their bluff and tell the contractor to blast where he wants but Gary is in grief at this point and just doesn't care about Empire Valley since it doesn't really matter now when his brother is gone.

    I like the way they make Gary grieve in this episode and how he broke down at the end when it all caught up with him. I felt sorry for Ben though when Gary showed up and interrupted his evening with Val. But I do think this episode has missed two things. Firstly concerning Bobby's death, Val didn't really react that strongly to it. She said she was shocked when Karen told her but that was it. We didn't get to see her intial reaction to hearing the news since they jumped right into the conversation so they missed something there.

    The second thing they missed was Val and Gary's conversation in the nursery. I would have wanted to see Gary's reaction when he got to see his children for the first time. :(

    I like that Mack was talking to the Fisher's and was following through on his investigation. I felt bad for Sheila, she was obviously missing "her" babies.
    It was funny how Karen also felt bad for her and wouldn't stop talking about it when Mack tried to kiss her. :lol:

    It was also funny when Abby gave Ben a promotion because he's supposed to get married and it's expensive with kids...then she winked at him. It was great.

    I don't think Joshua treats Cathy right in their marriage. He's really manipulative. :(
    But today I could understand why he got angry with her for signing a lease on the apartment before he could say what he thought of it. They should have made the decision together.
     
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  8. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Tonight it was "Awakenings"...

    Joshua has turned into a real jerk. He storms off the set after an argument with Ben and Cathy does the show instead of him. When he finds out he fights with Cathy in an alley and threw her into a bunch of garbage bags before she runs away crying. Poor Cathy turns to Ben for help since she has nowhere else to go. Poor Cathy she's a woman trapped in an abusive relationship and she needs to get out. :(

    On top of that Joshua was also unfaithful to her as he hooked up with a fan of his show and then came home smelling like cheap perfume. Cathy did the right thing though when she threw him into the shower with his clothes on to wash off! :giggle:

    Laura is going to start working at Lotus Point with Karen, Gary and Abby. Finally. I remember she worked there but not when she started. Hopefully from now on she will be more intergrated with the plots. :)

    Gary plays with the twins and when Lilimae tells him that Ben doesn't act like a father and that the twins doesn't look like Ben the penny finally drops. You can see it on Gary's face as he hugs little Bobby tighter that he suspects that he is the twin's father. :)

    Meanwhile Val promises Ben that he will be the twins father. Nobody will know. I think Val is so unfair to Gary to withhold the truth from him. :(
    Anyway Ben and Val decides to get married and once again they have succeeded in keeping Gary and Val apart although the viewer know they belong together. Great drama!
     
  9. Seaviewer

    Seaviewer Soap Chat Addict

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    Love that stuff! :)

    Funny that the penny never dropped for Lilimae, though. Even as she was saying it.
     
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  10. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh I know Lilimae is so the last to know! :giggle:

    So tonight it was "Until parted by death"...

    The episode picks up with the last one left off with Gary and Val's much anticipated conversation. After what happened last week we think he's going to confront her about the babies and if he is the father. But he doesn't. Instead he just tells her she's beautiful and asks her if she is happy. This whole conversation is so heartbreaking. Watching their scene it makes it obvious how Gary and Val still belong together. In fact I think the emotions are written all over their faces. So superb acting by Joan & Ted. :hat:

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    Ben's POV.

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    "Would it be alright if I kiss the bride?"

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    "I think that would cause a terrible scandal!"

    I don't know but the last line reminds me of Scarlett O'Hara who is dancing with Rhett at the ball after her first husband died. I am not sure why but I think they said something similar...

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    Anyway he kisses her hand instead.

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    She is overwhelmed by emotions...

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    He says "I hopes you will be happier with Ben then you've ever been in your life"

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    Then he goes and she is left crying feeling like her whole body is coming apart.

    Can you tell how much I love this scene? :love4:

    It's so emotional and sad and very poignant. When Gary later goes to wish Ben well he doesn't compliments him on his kids. Instead he tells Bobby and Betsy to take care of their mama. He knows the kids is his now. He doesn't need a confirmation to know. :)

    Ben and Val are married and when she is told to forsake all over they cut to Gary sitting in the car. It's painful for him that she's marrying someone else and yet he is married to Abby.

    Later in the episode Ben and Val are blissfully happy on their honeymoon.

    Cathy and Joshua's marriage is over but he won't let go and is acting more and more crazy. :( Lilimae is the only one who can reach him. She tells him to get help. But he won't do that instead he tells her how his father used to beat him and it makes her feel all guilty for abandoning him. Alec and Julie are brilliant in this emotional scene as well.

    Then Lilimae apologizes to Cathy for not helping her.

    Karen is told by Laura that Joshua beat Cathy and Karen wants to help. But Laura tells her that Cathy has already done the hard part when since she's left him. So true I think. The most important thing for women (or men) in abusive relationships is to realize how unhealthy the relationship is for them and let go.

    Abby is stunned when Elliot is killed for snooping around at Empire Valley. She thinks Greg was behind the murder. But he thought she was responsible. So they realize that someone else was behind it. :eck:
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
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  11. Daniel Avery

    Daniel Avery Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Not as stunned as Elliot was. :eek: What...too soon?

    Fun fact: Jonathan Goldsmith, the actor who played poor, extra-crispy Frank Elliot is currently in commercials playing "The Most Interesting Man in the World" in Dos Equis beer ads.
     
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  12. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Tonight it was time for Joshua's exit in "Rise and fall"...

    I remember the first time I saw this episode I was upset that they killed off Joshua as I really liked him. :(

    It's another one of those episodes that are really brilliant. I like how they start building up the contrast between Joshua and Cathy's lives. She is now the one with the fame and he is trying to preach on the streets for whoever will listen to him.

    Then there's that scene with the broken wedding cake dolls where he gets the idea to kill Cathy and himself so that they can be together for eternity in heaven. He is sick and needs help.

    But when he tries to reach out to Val and Lilimae, Val refuses to listen to him unless he comes with her to see her psychiatrist. The meeting leaves Val all upset and later when Lilimae tries to see Joshua he refuses to come with her. I guess what they would have needed was to do an intervention and put him in the psych ward. But Lilimae refuses to send her son there. She is blind and can't see he needs help. Not until at the very end when Joshua kidnaps Cathy and brings her up with him on the roof is her eyes open.

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    Lilimae yells at Joshua until he lets go of Cathy and then she should have tried to talk him down from that roof. But she doesn't. Instead she keeps yelling at him and calling him a cold monster and then he steps back and trips and falls over the edge and dies. :rip:

    It's tragic. Lilimae saved Cathy's life but she also drove her own son over the edge by yelling at him. I think Lisa and Julie were really great in this episode. You can sense their pain as they can watched someone they loved get more and more desperate and out of reach.

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    Watching this storyarc again, I can't help but think that Joshua must have had some sort of personality disorder. Only problem is I can't think of which one it would be. :think:

    But yeah it's sad to see how this boy who seemed so sweet when he first showed up turn into a dangerous, self-destructive and confused man. He was completely broken down and so lost. He would have needed help.

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    Oh and I must say that Alec Baldwin was superb in his role. I can see why he was able to move on to a career in movies after this. :clap:

    Does anyone know why he quit the show btw?
     
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  13. Daniel Avery

    Daniel Avery Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I've always heard (but have no confirmation) that the role had been designed to have this sort of beginning, middle, and end--as if they knew his fate the whole time. I'm sure if they had planned to "keep" him, they would not have written him going so far off the deep end (hitting Cathy, etc.). Soaps will sometimes decide half-way through a story to keep someone they originally intended to write out, leaving them to do some serious rewriting or ret-conning in an effort to make viewers forget some of the heinous things the characters did when they were planning to get rid of him/her. If they had decided to keep Joshua, it would have been quite difficult to make the viewers warm to him again, after being seen beating his wife.

    The reactions of the characters around him rang true, which adds to the depth of the story. Lilimae was so dead-set against having Joshua locked up because of how she herself had been locked up in a sanitarium after "doing what needed to be done" to Chip (turning him into a hood ornament :D). She made us believe that time was somehow the worst thing that ever happened to her, as if she'd been sent to a gulag, and did not want anyone to "suffer" as she had. Cathy had fallen for abusive men in the past (Ray Geary) and had talked herself into loving him despite the abuse. I've mentioned in the past how the situation on the roof echoes a similar situation that Val and Lilimae had in the episode "The Three Sisters" where a semi-cracked Valene was planning to jump off the roof of that house until Lilimae brought her to her senses. Lilimae wasn't being all calm and reassuring to Joshua the way she was when Val tried to jump years before; instead, she was 'reading him for filth' (do the kids still say that?) and splat, there he went. Whether they even wrote that final confrontation with "The Three Sisters" in mind, I have no idea--but it's an interesting parallel.
     
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  14. Seaviewer

    Seaviewer Soap Chat Addict

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    I think this scene marks the end of what might be called the first phase for me. Val marries Ben, Val and Gary go off the boil. It was never the same after that.
    As with the earlier cast changes, I didn't know Alec Baldwin was leaving. I really thought that he would be found to have a brain tumour or something and he would be operated on and saved. (Of course they used brain tumour idea later.)
     
  15. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Interesting observations. I'm sure if they had decided to keep Joshua around they would have found some way to redeem him. The writers on Knots were very competent and knew how to tell a compelling storylines with multi-layered characters. :bowing

    You know the brain tumor idea is not half bad as it could have explained his erractic behavior.

    The Three Sister's paralell is also a good one. I think Lilimae was more calm with Val though since she hasn't upset her the way that Joshua had. Lilimae knew he had hit Cathy and that upset her.

    Tonight it was "Alterations"...

    Poor Lilimae is very upset about what the papers are writing about her but when she confronts the chief editor about it he just upsets her and then has a reporter taking her angry photo so they can use that for tomorrow's paper. When Lilimae sees it at the grocery store she goes...:hair:and can't even finish her shopping. I must say that once again I am with Ben here, "it's journalism like that rag that gives the rest of the journalists a bad name!" :(

    Olivia finds out Abby's secret about Gary's babies when she overhears her mother and Greg talk on the phone. She is shocked and the next day she runs away from home. She moves in with her aunt Karen and her cousins. When Abby tries to make her move back she blackmails her. I guess she is her mother's daughter.
    It is ironic in a sense how now the tables are turned compared to when Diana chose to stay with Abby and Gary a few years earlier.

    Oh and Greg babysits Laura's sons. They have changed the actor who plays Jason.
     
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  16. Daniel Avery

    Daniel Avery Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I often joke about how KL kept Jason basically the same age while all the other kids grew older, but I did some quick research and found it is worthy of note.

    Justin Dana (who played Jason in the pilot episode only) was born in 1970.
    Danny Gellis was born in 1971.
    Danny Ponce (now known as Luis Daniel Ponce) was born in 1972.
    Matthew Newmark (the child who began in this episode) was born in 1976.

    So from 1979 to about 1986, poor Jason basically did not age due to recasts. Using the ages of the boys as a guide, Jason was nine years old in the pilot and ten years old in "Alterations". It's especially noteworthy when you see Olivia (actress Tonya Crowe also born in 1971) graduating to her first 'rebellious teen' story as Jason still plays with toys.
     
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  17. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks @Daniel Avery You know the first time (not counting the pilot Jason) they changed the actor for Jason I didn't even noticed they had replaced him. So it must have been a rather smooth transition.

    This time however I noticed it right away and I understand why now. Most of the time when they recast and actor for a role they do so to age him a few years. So it's interesting how they did the complete opposite this time around. I mean to have Jason be 14 one day and 10 the next is a big deal. So I agree that it was a weird recast.

    I wonder if they did it on purpose to make the age difference between Laura's sons less...

    True also about Jason and Olivia. They used to be the same age before. So yeah it's strange to watch her age and Jason stay the same age. :(
     
  18. Daniel Avery

    Daniel Avery Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Danny Ponce left KL to co-star on Valerie, the troubled sitcom starring Valerie Harper (until it no longer starred Valerie Harper...long story) so perhaps if Ponce had not left the show, Jason would have aged more naturally in the same way the Fairgate kids and Olivia did, since the same actor would be aging with the character.
     
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  19. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks for telling me that, I didn't know that's the reason he left the show. But you are absolutely right if he had stayed on Knots Landing Jason of course would have aged naturally.

    Tonight it was "A Very Special Gift..."

    So well Abby warns Karen about Mack and Jill Bennett and Karen burst out laughing and Abby totally doesn't get it but I did! :laughs:
    I just knew why Karen was laughing even before she told Mack about it. I don't know if it's because I have watched the show before or if it's because I know the character so well by this point...

    But yeah it was funny how Abby was warning Karen when it was in fact her husband who was cheating with Jill.

    A fact that Abby became aware of a bit later in the episode when Peter and Jill set her and Gary up at a restaurant so she would see him with her. Abby's marriage might not be that good but I still felt sorry for her. I mean she is technically his wife and he's been treating her like crap ever since he blew up the Empire Valley complex. It's like he's had it with her and she's the last to know. :(

    Michael finds a joint in Olivia's purse, so here we go, her drug problem is coming up. I guess that means that Brian Austin Green will soon appear on the show as he was on it for that. So I am looking forward to that recast. :D

    The twins celebrate their first birthday and got a birthday card from the Fishers. I was happy to hear that Sheila was expecting. Now they managed to tie up that storyline in a happy way for every one. :)

    Also Gary gave the twins half of Empire Valley. I bet Greg and Abby won't be thrilled when they find out! :laugh1:
     
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  20. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    So tonight it was "Phoenix rising"...

    Another great episode. I especially loved the fundraiser how Peter tried to blackmail Abby that he knew about Val's babies. I guess it was the straw that broke the camel's back as Abby had had enough of being blackmailed and caused a big scene where she confronted Greg about it and when he wouldn't tell on her she went on and told Gary and Val and everyone else that she knew that the babies had been kidnapped from the start and she knew who the father of the babies was!

    Great drama, the look on Val's face and also Gary's and Ben's...:clap:

    Also don't try to double cross Abby, now she was out for vengeance on Peter and she found it by getting Sylvia to tell her that Peter was not her real son. My guess is Sylvia did have Galveston's baby but her son is dead so that's why there's Peter.

    Gary has asked Abby for a divorce which she really doesn't want. But she plays hardball with him and ask for Empire Valley. He wants to get rid of her so badly that he agreed. :(

    Abby finally managed to get Olivia to move back home. :)

    Gary talked to Olivia about his alcoholism and her drug problem.

    Cathy's dress at the fundraiser was really weird and showed up her entire belly button. I mean if it had looked like that in the back had been one thing but in front. It was too much.

    Eric collapses after working on the grounds of Lotus Point... :(
     

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