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Should ISIS teen be prevented from returning to the UK?

Discussion in 'UK Politics' started by Sarah, Feb 15, 2019.

  1. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47248555

    I'm torn on this as she was 15 when she made the decision but most of all I'm torn because she is pregnant. An innocent baby shouldn't have to grow up there. Perhaps she should be able to give birth safely, the child taken from her and then she remain there?

    There is a lot of debate on this at the moment, with many including lead politicians saying she should not be allowed back in.

    A British woman who fled to Syria as a schoolgirl to join the Islamic State group could be prevented from returning to the UK, the home secretary has said.

    "My message is clear," Sajid Javid told the Times: "If you have supported terrorist organisations abroad I will not hesitate to prevent your return."

    He added that if Shamima Begum, 19, did come home she could be prosecuted.

    Ms Begum, who is pregnant, told the paper she had no regrets but wanted to have her baby in the UK.

    "We must remember that those who left Britain to join Daesh were full of hate for our country," Mr Javid said.


    "If you do manage to return you should be ready to be questioned, investigated and potentially prosecuted."


    Mr Javid added that there were a range of measures available to "stop people who pose a serious threat from returning to the UK, including depriving them of their British citizenship or excluding them from the country".

    Security chiefs in London could also control Ms Begum's possible return through a Temporary Exclusion Order.

    The controversial legal tool bars a British citizen from returning home until they have agreed to investigation, monitoring and, if required, deradicalisation.

    However Lord Carlile, a former independent reviewer of terrorism legislation, said Ms Begum would have to be accepted back into the UK if she had not become a national of any other country.

    Under international law, it is not possible to render a person stateless.
     
  2. Angela Channing

    Angela Channing Soap Chat Hero

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    I don't know the background of the girl other than that she is British. Where is she supposed to go if not back to her own country? We may not like it but that's the reality of the situation and for Sajid Javid to suggest otherwise it typical of the dishonesty of Tories trying to follow popularist positions on issues.
     
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  3. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    I think the point that is being made is that because she left the UK to join a terrorist group, that was her decision and she should not be allowed back - period. That she made her bed and she can lie in it so to speak.
     
  4. Angela Channing

    Angela Channing Soap Chat Hero

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    The thing is though that Sajid Javid out of one side of his mouth boasts about how many foreign nationals he deports from the UK when they commit a crime here but out of the other side of his mouth talks about preventing other countries from deporting UK criminals back here which is shameful hypocrisy. Yes, she chose to leave the UK but she was radicalised here, we allowed her to be in an environment which made her the wicked person she became so we need to accept some responsibility for not dealing with that threat earlier.

    She should come back here so her baby can be born safely and looked after by her family after all the unborn child is not guilty of any crime. The mother should be prosecuted here for crimes of terrorism and if found guilty be put in jail.
     
  5. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    Surely if she chose to go there of all places, she needs a hell of a case to be brought back. She has shown no remorse and actually said she doesn't regret moving and that it 'met her expectations'. I would normally say she is too young to be punished but to be coming out with that suggests she believes in what she did. I agree, let the baby be born here, and either send her back or imprison her. Without punishment, people will think it's okay to keep joining radical groups. She even believes the life that ISIS advertise, is 'normal'.
     
  6. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I think the situation is tragic. A 15 year old girl is not mature enough to make rational decisions so naturally this girl should never have left the UK in the first place. However now when she has I think whether she should be allowed to come back depends on two things:

    1) Is she a danger to society?
    2) Can she be rehabilitated?

    If she doesn't pose a threat to the people of Great Britain and coming back to UK can help her, I think she should be allowed to come home.

    Also after reading up a bit more on this. I remember when the school girls (this girl left the UK with two of her friends) left back in 2015 and how I had hoped they would be captured and returned to their parents before reaching Syria. It seems one of her friends wanted to return a year later but was killed before she could do so. :(
     
  7. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    Her being pregnant could also be considered a ruse to safely get back into the country. But you are right Sarah. At this time there is an innocent child caught up in this mess. I'd also ask those quick to condemn this young lady to put yourself in the position when you were 15 years old. Ever heard of peer pressure. That said, 15 year olds today know more than me when I was 15. We weren't exposed to the full horrors these terrorist organizations can inflict via websites like Facebook and YouTube. When I was 15 I would be tucked away in my bedroom listening to vinyl records with the headphones on. 15 year olds today are tucked away in bedrooms watching horrific videos posted onto websites like the aforementioned and somehow have become romanced about the possibility of going off to a foreign country and joining these idiots.

    We've had similar issues here in Australia. But this is where I get baffled. Parents have fled these countries in the vain hope their children can be offered a better life. Australia has embraced those wishing to remove themselves from such conflicts only to see the offspring bolt and go back to fight for the cause their parents were fleeing.

    Image.jpg

    Why anyone would wish to leave this..............................................................................................for this, has me stumped.​
     
  8. Barbara Fan

    Barbara Fan Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes she should be prevented from returning to UK

    She shows No remorse, no regret and is part of the most vile, murdering, barbaric regime on earth

    She has made her bed, now she's got to lie on it and suffer the consequences of her actions

    Tough luck dear, I hope the UK Govt do not cave in - as a taxpayer I don't want to pay for her trial, her prison cell where she can corrupt many more like minded people, or her sprog. I just feel sorry for couples who are desperate to have a child and cant and the child should be adopted. She isn't fit to be a mother.

    I remember those who were killed in Je Suis Charlie, Sous, PC Keith Palmer, The London Bridge attacks, Lee Rigby, the Bataclan, Borough Market, Manchester, Kenya, and not to forget our serviceman who have died fighting evil. RIP
     
  9. Angela Channing

    Angela Channing Soap Chat Hero

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    Being British means she doesn't need any case to be brought back just her British passport.

    Every year hundreds of UK nationals go to a neo-Nazi festival in Germany on the anniversary of Hitler's birthday. While there they listen to extreme right wing hate messages in music and speeches. I imagine they come back to the UK fired up with hatred toward certain groups of people in the UK as a consequence. No one suggests these people should show remorse for going there before being allowed back in the UK. All they have to do is flash their British passport at border control before being allowed in. Why are so many people suggesting this girl should be treated differently other than because the right-wing media are trying to whip people up into a frenzy over her?

    That wouldn't happen. If she was identified as being an ongoing threat she would be carefully monitored and prevented from having contact with "like minded people". She would almost certainly be put in a deradicalisation programme which I think is far better than being somewhere else where she is able to assist in terrorist activities.

    If UK based Syrian nationals were found guilty of being a member of ISIS while here, they would be deported back to Syria. How would you feel if Syria refused to take them back and they would have to stay in the UK? It works both ways.
     
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  10. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    I didn't realise that if you had a passport, that you had a right to return to your country of origin. I think that is a very poor rule. As I said, she has shown no remorse at all. I listened to an interview with her and even the sight of heads in bins didn't seem to faze her. I agree about the deradicalisation programme @Angela Channing - because I don't believe for a second that she is totally free of the hatred she had in the first place when she went there.
     
  11. Angela Channing

    Angela Channing Soap Chat Hero

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    It's something that our government uses regularly to deport people who commit crime in the UK.

    I think this will become a massive issue in future months. There are others who left their birth countries to go to support ISIS and now that they have been defeated where do they go? Do they go somewhere where they can regroup and plot further terrorist activities or do they return to the countries of origin where they can be questioned, put on trial, possibly convicted and imprisoned where they can undergo deradicalization. To me the latter seems to be the more sensible of the 2 options.
     
  12. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    So why for example, if I go to America and commit a crime, can I be held under US law but she can't be held in Syria? She hasn't committed a crime in the UK, her crimes were in Syria...?

    Everything about ISIS scares the life out of me, and someone who goes to those extremes would most definitely have to be deradicalised as owing to her lack of remorse, she clearly thinks what she did was ok.
     
  13. Angela Channing

    Angela Channing Soap Chat Hero

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    In the UK there is a specific law making membership of ISIS illegal, that isn't the case for all countries. It's not clear if she has committed any crime under Syrian law.

    Images such as this one give me optimism that people can be persuaded to turn their backs on terrorism.

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    Haha this did make me chuckle! Thanks @Angela Channing - the buck eejits of the Northern Ireland peace process known as 'The Chuckle Brothers' to us locals. :D
     
  15. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    "it is illegal for any country to make its citizens stateless"

    I wouldn't say all but most countries around the world recognise this rule. Here in Australia this law has raised its ugly head due to some terrorist wishing to return to Australia. I don't have a problem with that because the moment they step onto Australian soil they are arrested for treason.

    On the flip side I find it abhorrent a conga line of lawyers are quick to defend such turds.
     
  16. Justine

    Justine Soap Chat Fan

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    I have to say, I've been in the minority whenever I have this conversation with people (friends, family, colleagues etc.) but I think she should be allowed back. Not because I think she's innocent, not because she's shown remorse but because she's a product of our society. What bothers me most is that very few people have bothered to acknowledge she was 15 years old, A MINOR, and she was manipulated into joining a terrorist organisation. I would even stretch to say she was abused. Does that mean she's completely innocent? No, absolutely not. But it does mean she didn't have the intellectual faculties of an adult to make a decision.

    I would also like to point out, there would be a much more outcry in her favour if she was a pretty little blonde, white girl.
     
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