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Dallas Character Should JR have been Lucy's Daddy?

Discussion in 'Dallas - The Original Series' started by Angela Channing, Sep 27, 2018.

  1. Angela Channing

    Angela Channing Soap Chat Warrior

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    I know this was hinted at in one of the Dallas novels but should JR have been Lucy's biological father in the TV series? JR could have raped Valene in the past and Lucy would have been the result of the violent attack.

    It would have made total sense because why else would JR have sent some "good old boys" after Valene to take her baby away to bring back to Southfork if it wasn't his child? Having Lucy at Southfork meant that Gary and Valene would always want to go back there to see her and JR's aim always seemed to be to get rid of them. It made no sense for him wanted Lucy to be brought up at Southfork.

    Why did JR hate Valene so much unless it was the story she could have told about her rape? Why was Valene so scared about going to Southfork and was her hatred for JR more than just him taking her child away? The rape and JR being Lucy's father would answer all those questions.

    Had the show runners gone with this idea it would have made for some very interesting storylines and made Lucy much more of a central character in the later years when she had more of a peripheral role.
     
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  2. Mustard

    Mustard Soap Chat Active Member

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    No. That backstory is perfect as it is. A bachelor J.R. in his 20s green with envy as a teenage Gary brings his financially poor and pregnant wife Valene to Southfork, a marriage which like Bobby's later marriage to Pam shocked the Ewing family, Gary was then under pressure from Jock and J.R. to face up to his new responsibilities, with J.R. plotting to completely ruin the marriage and drive them from Southfork. Gary was Miss Ellie's favourite son and she loved baby Lucy being around at Southfork. Therefore, when Gary was driven off and then Val driven off, when Val sneaked back for Lucy, J.R. gets Lucy back by force and threatens to kill Val if she returns to the state of Texas when Val takes legal action. Miss Ellie hates what J.R. has done, but doesn't really force the issue too much, and Jock just accepts it, seeing it as confirmation that Gary didn't have guts.

    This provides the development for how all these characters developed, and the dynamics between them. Val's hatred for J.R. is not that of a rape victim hating her rapist, but that of a woman's hate for the man who ruined her first marriage and stole her baby daughter from her which resulted in Lucy being brought up without her parents around and as more of a spoiled rich girl. Val's mothering skills, humble Tennessee background and strong character would have killed that stone dead in Lucy had Val been the one to bring up Lucy. Gary's issues with Lucy are slightly different, since he abandoned his wife and daughter at Southfork after falling into alcoholism and didn't fight the Ewings tooth and nail like Val did. Gary looks up to Val's strength, judging himself by it.

    Perhaps that why Gary and Val were such soulmates. One is strong on the surface, from a rich family yet is full of insecurities and not caring about the things that his father wants him to care about, and the other is weak on the surface, from a poor family and yet she's a rock in terms of being organized, and her personal strength seemingly growing from every setback in her life.
     
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  3. KayLloyd

    KayLloyd Soap Chat Fan

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    To quote Whitney Houston, Oh hell to the no!
     
  4. ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989

    ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989 Soap Chat Addict

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    Excellent points about Valene, of all the Ewing wives she probably was the strongest of them all! More so than Pam (and Pam was pretty strong and had her own strength in fighting JR but ultimately Bobby and her desire for a having a child was her weakness) while Pam certainly wasn't as rich as the Ewings, the Barnes were probably lower middle class since Cliff did get a college education, Valene was dirt poor! Supporting herself by the time she was 12/13 years, she never had anyone to fall back on, Pam did, even it if was Aunt Maggie and Cliff, had Valene had the same support and safety net that Pam had I doubt that she would have lost Lucy, for one thing if she had a brother like Cliff (in his early days) he would have fought tooth and nail.

    This leads me to Miss Ellie, she must have known what JR did yet she stood back and never once tried to reach out to Valene, she couldn't reach Gary by that point but Valene was more than capable of looming after Lucy, why didn't she put her foot down and give Lucy back to Valene, let mother and daughter live in Dallas while the Ewings give them financial support, since I highly doubt Jock and Ellie would let their granddaughter go without the finery of being a Ewing, all the while Valene opens a chain of restaurants so that Lucy would also have good work ethic, I actually find it hard to watch Miss Ellie criticise JR for all his misdeeds yet it was because of on particular misdeed regarding her raising her granddaughter at Southfork she is willing to overlook that particular misdeed because it benefitted her
     
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  5. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    Everytime I re-watch Lorimar Dallas I find the character of Lucy nauseating. In most circumstance I fast forward her scenes. It doesn't help we are to learn later she had been sleeping with her Uncle. However, I think the biggest issue for me is Charlene's acting chops. Up against veterans like Jim Davis, Barbara Bel and Larry her immaturity just shone through. Some will argue this assisted in her portrayal of Lucy but if any actress desperately required acting classes it was Charlene.

    The other issue (again viewed from my eyes) was, "Why the hell was she at Southfork?" I've always had this thought JR and Valene had history. She was terrified of him, I mean really terrified.

    I disagree on this point. Are you looking at Valene from the Knots Landing Universe or Dallas? I never watched Knots Landing so I'd have to take your word for it but everytime she stepped onto Southfork you could see her lips quiver. Miss Ellie, Pam and Donna were the strongest in my view, Pam more so.

    Returning to the main argument on this thread. I think the writers missed an opportunity to further explore the relationship between, JR, Gary, Valene and Lucy. If they had gone down the path JR had in fact raped Valene and Lucy was the result then keeping Lucy around would have made more sense. Instead of that ridiculous story of her being a fashion model I would have preferred to see Lucy take her education seriously after she discovers she IS JR's daughter. Accomplish her goal of obtaining a business degree and take responsibility for her shares in Ewing Oil by stepping into and taking an office at Ewing Oil.
     
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  6. Mustard

    Mustard Soap Chat Active Member

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    I like Lucy. Charlene is cast well for the part of a spoiled rich girl who is good at perception regarding J.R.'s shenanigans and manipulations. Unfortunately for her, her perception tends to leave her when it comes to her own taste in men. Mickey was her best boyfriend. I also have no issue with her early relationship with Ray when watching it without hindsight, which is what you should try to do. They didn't know that they were uncle and niece at the time, and had no reason to think so.

    And I think I agree that Valene is stronger than Pamela. Val might look vulnerable on the surface, but don't let that deceive you. Pam is more obviously strong on the surface, but Val has an extra zeal to her determination and organization, mostly seen on Knots Landing because that's where she spent nearly all her episodes, but it's seen a bit in her Dallas episodes too in how she cottons on to J.R. being out to get Gary in the Reunion episodes and how she stands up to him in defence of herself, Gary and Lucy. Val is an absolute rock for Gary, whether she's his wife or ex-wife. As Gary's other wife, Abby, once said in frustration "Whenever Gary is feeling insecure, off he goes running to Val". I can't imagine Bobby and Pam having the same dynamic as Gary and Val like that. Bobby is a rock for Pam far more than vice versa. I would also say that while Pam loved Bobby more than anybody else, I think Pam loved Mark more in the sense that he was an emotional rock for her. Bobby was often too obsessed with that Ewing Oil career of his.

    Yet Val stood up to J.R. strongly despite her fear. She had a go at him over his treatment of Gary, for ruining their first marriage, snuck back to Southfork to take baby Lucy, later tried to take legal action to get Lucy back. Not bad for a 16-year-old vulnerable girl who is terrified of J.R. And that was just young Val. In the Reunion episodes, she told Gary that J.R. was coming after him, later told Gary that she'd get in touch with him as he was leaving Southfork, had a go at J.R. again despite her fear. And then later, J.R. tried to run Val out of town again, Val stood her ground that she wouldn't go until she saw Lucy, and Lucy and Bobby heard the conversation.

    Pam takes a different approach to J.R. She ain't scared of him, but tries to avoid getting into verbal battles with him, if possible, unless she's really angry. Val tends to go at J.R. regardless, despite her fear.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2018
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  7. Mustard

    Mustard Soap Chat Active Member

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    I'm not sure who is the strongest out of those 3. You can make a good case for all 3.
     
  8. J. R.'s Piece

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    While Valene is unnerved to see JR, she does stand up to him. He tries to buy her off in Reunion and she refuses and slaps him. So he lies to his family about what happened. She stands up to him when JR is suggesting to keep her out of Dallas permanently, when Bobby and Lucy overhear. In Knots Landing episode 2, Community Spirit, Valene is indeed noticeably upset to see JR (he calls her his “favourite sister-in-law”) and have him in her house but it is Valene who, in front of JR, persuades Gary to make a stand against JR in that episode, when Gary himself is convinced he can’t win. She drives Gary to and away from JR’s office, where Gary goes in to sneak a peek and steal JR’s secret files. She also calls JR on his threat to Gary and Val regarding Lucy in that episode, forcing JR to back down on it. She also has a verbal go at him about his actions regarding Lucy when he discusses Lucy’s forthcoming wedding to Mitch at Abby’s dinner party in A Family Matter. She also tells him that she doesn’t know who shot him (despite Kristin turning up four episodes earlier and staying at her house) but wishes that she had shot him herself. Valene also sends JR away when he turns up at her Dallas book signing (the day after Jock’s Will is read) and reveals that he was her publisher, while asking her to sign his copy with “To my favourite brother-in-law in the whole wide world”. The two times that JR visits her and rubs it in about her splitting up with Gary, she is unhappy but shows her displeasure about him being there.



     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
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  9. Snarky's Ghost

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    I think a season-long story arc about the possibility that JR sired Lucy would be great.

    I can just imagine the KNOTS' cross-over scene with Valene screaming into a mirror that she isn't to blame for being raped by JR back in 1961... That's just very '80s.
     
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  10. Taylor Bennett Jr.

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    They should have gone there with this storyline, with the added twist that... it was a totally consensual, fiery fling between polar opposites and natural enemies (that reignites spontaneously even into the 80s) that produced Lucy!

    (I'm mostly kidding, but hey, why not go for something shocking?)
     
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  11. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    Many thanks for posting those Knots Landing scenes. You see I never had the opportunity to watch Knots Landing because our local television station didn't offer this series to viewers. But it does clarify some important things I have missed when J.R. Ewing visited the cul-de-sac :)
     
  12. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    I believe by offering a story like that would clarify why Lucy was at Southfork when the series began. I can just imagine an explosive episode in the Southfork living room with everyone involved; Jock, Miss Ellie, JR, Sue Ellen, Bobby, Pam, Gary, Valene and Lucy. It could also explain why Sue Ellen treated Lucy with contempt. If they had went with this story arc perhaps JR had confided in Sue Ellen his deepest secret which cements their relationship further.
     
  13. J. R.'s Piece

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    You’re welcome! Here is Lucy being grabbed. It says “Ome” on it, which rings a bell somewhere.


    JR/Valene scenes are lovely. Here’s another, from a few weeks before Jock’s Will was read.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  14. Mustard

    Mustard Soap Chat Active Member

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    We know why Lucy was at Southfork. That's all explained.

    Sue Ellen treated Lucy bad because Sue Ellen was a self-confessed snob, and Lucy was the daughter of teenage parents driven off Southfork. That kind of snobbery in the 1970s wasn't exactly hard to find, and it would be worse in Texas. Lucy returns the contempt herself to Sue Ellen, mocking the lack of affection in Sue Ellen's relationship with J.R. at that time compared to Bobby and Pam.

    J.R. treats Lucy with contempt at times because she sees his schemes before most people and she likes to needle him about those schemes. Lucy also has that underlying hostility to J.R. for driving her parents off Southfork, something which is a sensitive subject for those living at Southfork.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
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  15. Seaviewer

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    Exploring the possibility maybe, perhaps even revealing a long ago rape, but I would never want to see JR actually being Lucy's biological father.
     
  16. J. R.'s Piece

    J. R.'s Piece Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    https://www.videodetective.com/tv/knots-landing-community-spirit/990965
     
  17. Snarky's Ghost

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    I tend to agree. Like the plotline that's been suggested for oldDALLAS' final season, a dying Miss Ellie reveals to Clayton that Digger was really JR's biological father -- and then a drunken Clayton later spills the beans, there's no reason a DNA test couldn't eventually undo the revelation after JR spends a tormented year thinking that it was true.
     
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