Somehow I missed this back in the day ...

Discussion in 'Dallas TNT' started by James from London, Aug 11, 2018.

  1. stevew

    stevew Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    To me all they had to do was show Cliff was mentally ill. Make him believe John Ross was his son and those children were incesteous, thinking they were his not Christopher’s. Have him right back on the fued with the Ewing’s. Having him gambling, loosing control. Give him ocd. Drive him right to the edge of insanity and I’d have bought it.
     
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  2. stevew

    stevew Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    Again all they had to do is say the ranch (land and cattle business) was given to Bobby not the house (as we were also willing to go along with that Miss Ellie didn’t leave him the mineral rights). All they really wanted was for John Ross to be able to occupy the house. So he gets 1/2 at JR’s death and the rest at Bobby’s - and Bobby could have said he knew about it all along. The other piece about the drilling on the land was already being handled via mineral rights, just go back there, maybe Lucy holds Garys share and ends up siding with John Ross after all. Simple fixes - it just seemed sloppy not to address these issues.
     
  3. stevew

    stevew Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    I’d have just handed them a set up with the ORDER to explain everything logically, and stay loyal to everything - no you can’t ingore the movies, gut the house and add people that you say were there but weren’t there.

    JR: Chairman of Ewing Industries (42% owner) based on Koch Industries (owns West Star, Ewing Oil, etc.). Plays Jock’s head of the family character. Owns the big house having bought it from Bobby.

    Bobby: Vice Chairman of Ewing Industries (42% owner). Plays Miss Ellie’s moderator role with Jock’s hands on temper. Owns the cattle business of Southfork and is putting the land into a conservancy to protect it. Has it in writing he can live in the big house for the rest of his life. Cancer drives Bobby to protect the land anyway he can.

    Sue Ellen: Governor of Texas running for re-election, former Ewing Industries V.P. (16% owner); former President of the Ewing Farlow Family Foundation (controlled by Bobby, Gary and Dusty)

    Ann nee Garr: married to Bobby (no soppy tree), youngest daughter of Willie Joe Garr, Sr., former Cartel member, an artist with her own studio on the ranch.

    Harris Wendell: Ann’s x-husband, head of Wendell Logistics, one of Jeremy’s sons from one of his wives, based on John Paul Getty.

    John Ross: a wild catter down from the Dakotas drilling on Southfork having got permission from the new President of the Foundation whom he slept with. Owns 1/2 of Ewing Ramos Field Services.

    Elena Ramos: Teresa’s neice and John Ross’s partner and developing love interest, though it’s clear she’s in love with Christopher.

    Chris: owns Ewing Alternative, engaged to his cousin via adoption, Pamela Barnes, though it’s clear he’s in love with Elena. Will form Ewing Energies with John Ross.

    Pamela Barnes: engaged to Chris in a plot with Tommy, who pretends to be Afton’s son but is someone Pamela’s working with to take a share of the Ewing Drilling Process.

    Cliff Barnes: Chairman of the Wentworth Barnes Group, noticeably mentally ill, is convinced John Ross is his son, befriends him and warns Pamela away from him, though they obviously have feelings for each other from the start.

    Lucas: works the ranch with Bobby, his father, though he considers Ray a father figure as well, he’s known Bobby was his real father early on.

    Personally I’d reveal that Charlie turned out to really be Bobby’s daughter as well. That gives Bobby two biological children with Jenna Wade and one adopted and trying to prove himself a Ewing with no mother in site. Also, I’d have Ray remarried to Donna after she was windowed and is a former Secretary of Energy and current Senator in D.C. That way him flying back and forth would make sense and we’d know what he’s up to, running a horse farm and Margaret a lobbyist. Also I’d have Lucy living in California.

    Amy Anderson: a girl for Lucas, Punk and Mavis’s granddaughter.

    Carlos DelSol: friend of the family in Mexico who Jock got into the electronics business decades ago, Raoul’s younger brother, manages John Ross’s secret trust fund from Jock.

    Carmen Ramos: Teresa’s sister.
     
  4. Seaviewer

    Seaviewer Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    I don't necessarily agree with all the details but you do make the point that it should not have been that hard to get right.
     
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  5. stevew

    stevew Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    To me you start with the original formula (assuming they’re smart enough to not ignore what we saw, i.e. even the movies, Miss Ellie giving Bobby the ranch before she died, Carmen raiding her two kids on the ranch, etc.):

    Start with the house where everyone lives (as it was in some logical form) and ranch that tied them to the land.

    Then the business, surrounding the oil industry, if not Ewing Oil, something related that makes sense and is stable and wealthy. They were rich, not grubbing for money.

    Include Dallas and it’s tradiotons, Cattleman’s Club, Oil Barons Ball, the old family names - a lot of this stuff - if not why make it Dallas at all?

    Then the characters - revolving around the core family - the Ewing’s:

    The strong patriarch that controls everything with total domination that must be obeyed - Jock

    The mediating matriarch that everyone adores, respects and wants to please (genders can be switched) - Miss Ellie

    The child who had to work to prove himself, who will bend the rules to win - JR

    The child who’s the baby and doesn’t have to prove himself, but will also bend the rules to win - Bobby

    The child who’s the outsider to the above power struggle, trying to find his place - Lucy, Gary, Ray

    (Ah, a family of of relatable oldest, middle and baby)

    Include their spsouses/girlfriends/boyfriends - messed up relationships but somehow while toxic they’re also a permeant paring

    Add a list of enemies and other incidental characters and you have DALLAS. I don’t care who you put where necessarily, though I favor JR in Jock’s roll and John Ross in JR’s role. The fact is start with the formal and then add as you will (even drug cartels, even bat crap insane Cliff, even self righteous bitches, but NEVER “momma likes”).

    What they gave us:

    Bobby in the Jock role - but with no authority - easy fix and keep their story: Bobby runs Ewing Oil and the Ranch, turns out Chris is JRs son and treats them as brothers, kept both boys together on the ranch, but both in check, both as his heirs, both under his reign, feeling he’s strong, fair and powerful.

    Anne in the Miss Ellie role - but no one cared about her - another easy fix, both boys come to her aid, even if that means turning on Bobby when he is mad at Anne, Anne can moderate any fight because she stands up for what’s right and that’s keeping the family together, a mother figure to both boys.

    John Ross in JR’s role, but weak and scared, with way to many justifiable reasons to screw people over - easy fix, put Chris in this role trying to prove he is a Ewing.

    Chris in Bobby’s role, but weak and angry and not nearly as good hearted, with little to no reason to be such a jerk - easy fix, put John Ross in this role, as the Ewing prince he never had to prove himself, yet he’s willing to do anything to win.

    No Gary role - easy fix, add Lucas Krebs.

    No significant others that remained with their original attachment.

    No Southfork as we knew it - not even everyone living there.

    No Ewing Oil at all really - kinda struggling people.

    Then the chief family enemy was JR himself. And they never did know what to do with Sue Ellen so they got her drunk. Wtf.

    It’s like they took the formula and said we’re not going to do any of this.

    If you don’t use the formula for a chocolate cake don’t expect to have chocolate cake. It might turn out good. It might turn out bad. But it won’t be the chocolate cake people came over to have.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
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  6. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I think in order for the new Dallas to be successful they would have needed to stop thinking about who were going to fill the Jock & Ellie role etc. and just let the character be themselves rather than trying to emanulate somebody else.

    I think I have been through this before but I think the new show would have been better if:

    - Pamela Rebecca & John Ross would have been the ones getting married in the first episode.
    No marrying her cousin, no secret identity, no couple switch. Just a classic love story redux.

    - Bobby & Ann would have been married longer and had a teenage daughter. It would have cemented their relationship and also given them a stronger family bond.

    - Emma had never been kidnapped but had just been away at college.

    - Lucas would have shown up.

    - Christopher would have been the bad one and John Ross the good one. It creates drama and tension with their parents.

    - More time had been spent on Pamela Rebecca's relationship with her parents.

    - Guest appearances by original characters like Ray and Lucy would have been more involved in the storylines. We would have known more about these characters lives and what they were up to in 2012. Questions such as if Ray was still married to Jenna and if they had any kids would have been answered. Same with Lucy. Did she ever have children?
    I would have wanted to know that.

    - JR & Sue Ellen would have been remarried from the get go. (I admit a part of why I want that is because I know now that Larry died 15 episodes into the show which gave them too little time to reunite properly and the fans wanted to see them together!)

    - Most of the main characters would have still been living at Southfork.
    I know it's unrealistic but a lot of the drama came from having all these characters underneath the same roof. Maybe Chris and Elena could have lived in her cottage though. Then they were still on the ranch but a little private.
     
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  7. Lastkidpicked

    Lastkidpicked Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    Laurie Marr, I love your name, and always enjoy reading your posts. So please accept the following as if we were at a Texas Barbecue together, and having a fun and interesting conversation.
    I actually thought the reunion of J.R. and Cliff was one of the few times that Cidre actually captured the "feel" of the characters.

    J.R.: Time has not been kind to that face. But I do recall the smell of brimstone and crazy.
    Cliff: I'm trying to get your brother to sell me Southfork. Right some of the wrongs your family did to mine.
    J.R. : You don't have a shot at that. Southfork has been sold to a conservancy.
    Cliff: You're taking that awfully well, J.R. (And then they have a stare down).

    And later, when J.R. is with Sue Ellen and Cliff shows up to take her to lunch

    Cliff: Well, what do we have here? An angel, talking to the devil!
    J.R.: Sure was an unpleasant surprise to see you at Southfork the other day.
    Cliff: I'll never stop fighting for what is rightfully mine. And you are the same way.
    J.R.: I'm a changed man, Cliff. Evidence of that is you are not being wheeled out of here with two broken legs.

    Ahhhh. The good old days. . .
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2018
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  8. Frank Underwood

    Frank Underwood Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    Yeah, I too thought the Cliff and JR scenes on TNT's Dallas were good. I wouldn't call them great, but they served their purpose.

    Cliff was cordial with Bobby and Sue Ellen, which was in line with the end of original Dallas. The moment that Cliff began acting out of character was when it was revealed that he used his own daughter to infiltrate the Ewing family. Casting aside the fact that it ignored the events of JR Returns, it's hard to believe Cliff would pimp out his daughter like that. And it just got worse from there with him hiding Pam's death and bombing the oil rig with his pregnant daughter, nephew, brother in law, and former lover (Sue Ellen) on board. It was absurd.
     
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  9. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    You know that's the sad thing. The first season of Dallas TNT was good. It got some things right. But then it all fell apart when JR died and they turned Cliff into a baby killing monster like the episode after! :(

    They didn't need to do that plot twist. All they had to do was keep the focus on the Ewing family and their grief of JR and the show would have remained interesting.

    But I guess they needed to get rid of the babies since they were an unwanted complication for the John Ross and Pamela Rebecca pairing which let's face it was more interesting than Chris & Rebecca. I wish they had just paired up John Ross and Pamela Rebecca from the get go and let them have a child in the second season. John Ross Ewing VI. That would have been something. One JR dies, another one is born...
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018

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