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Sue Ellen’s Movie

Discussion in 'Dallas - The Original Series' started by Herofan, Jul 2, 2019.

  1. Walking in a Winter Guzzlerland

    Walking in a Winter Guzzlerland Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    you may have just described the perfect crime!
     
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  2. Jabari Lamar

    Jabari Lamar Soap Chat Member

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    As other's have said, I wouldn't even technically call that season's ending a "cliffhanger," it was just an ending. It was Sue Ellen's swan song.

    But it was indeed lame as the culmination of a half-season-long storyline. She goes through all of this trouble of having a movie made, and we even see scenes from it in several episodes, specifically to publicly embarass J.R., and then in the finale she shows the film to him and says "oh I'm not actually going to release this film, unless you pass me off again. Now I'm moving to Europe. Bye!"

    Huh?!? Basically all that was for nothing. First of all, the show should have never written Sue Ellen out, which I'm sure we all agree on, but if they were they could have done better than this. If anything, it would have been better to delay it a year, have the movie come out and be a big hit, and indeed embarass not only J.R. but the rest of the Ewings, which would cause even former allies like Miss Ellie and Bobby to not look too kindly on her, and cause tension in the family. J.R. could have tries to sue for defamation, and perhaps for custody of John Ross in revenge, so there's a trial, and Sue Ellen could win at the end, but then she decides she's ready to leave all of this drama behind her and moves to Europe with Don.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
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  3. stevew

    stevew Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    I would have wanted is for Sue Ellen to come out on top in the board room - to take control of Ewing Oil and give it in trust to John Ross with it agreed JR is the trustee but that Sue Ellen’s financial backers can take it away from JR at any moment she or they sees necessary. Have her say that either way John Ross gets Ewing Oil. “All I want from you is to leave me alone.” Then have her depart with out a man but as a truly strong, wealthy and independent woman.
     
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  4. Jabari Lamar

    Jabari Lamar Soap Chat Member

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    That would have been a more satisfying departure for her, with the acommplished goal that she's leaving with something hanging over J.R.'s head that she could use against him at any time. And certainly better than all the ridiculous back and forth ownership of Ewing Oil that ended up going on in the last couple of seasons.
     
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  5. Piggy It's Kermit Outside

    Piggy It's Kermit Outside Soap Chat Star

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    Instead of the movie, I´d have her blackmailing him with a very big file (red or not) of all his dirty tricks since his very beginnings at Ewing Oil: the Red File, the people he bribed to get away with the accusations for the Counter-revolution, and very especially, his deal with the Cubans. JR sweating from head to toe...That would be a threat!!
     
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  6. Via The Void

    Via The Void Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    What would've made an interesting cliffhanger & a lovely nod to the show itself would be if as Sue Ellen goes to exit with Don she turns back and says "I have an interested production company who would love to turn this movie into a series. How would you like that JR, seeing your dirty linen aired every week!!?"

    Freeze frame on JR's face, with his mouth dropping open! :)
     
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  7. tommie

    tommie Soap Chat Star

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    I dunno
    Maybe it could've ended like this:

    {Movie Is Finished Showing}

    *JR SLOW CLAPS*

    JR: Bravo Sue Ellen, this is one of your finest works!

    SE: Oh, you think so...

    [SE STARTS WALKING SLOWLY AGAINST JR]

    You know... you, you think you're always so smart. Think you've outsmarted me. Well, don't panic JR, there's not a gun in sight.

    [SE EMPTIES OUT HER POCKETS]

    Telling my story is grand, but killing you - well, that will be better.

    [JR LOOKS AT SUE ELLEN PENSIVELY]

    No, JR, I'm going to make you wait for it. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, hell, maybe not next year. But know, you are on my hitlist.

    [JR LOOKS CONFUSED]

    Well, Swellin', what does that mean?

    What do you think it means?

    [SE WALKS OUT]

    [FADE TO BLACK]
     
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  8. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    Except that the whole point of the Pearce family testifying against the mafia, entering witness protection, and moving to the midwest is that supposedly Nicholas' father took that huge risk because he so badly wanted to get out of crime and for his entire family to be far away from criminals.

    How did he even know people like the two thugs he hired to kidnap JR? And why would he trust them to not reveal his identity if they were caught? Then his remaining family would be in danger all over again. Are we supposed to believe that everybody knows at least a couple guys who could be hired to kidnap somebody and torture or kill the person f he doesn't answer your questions? I don't. It made it look like that stupid son of a bitch had gotten right back into the same damn thing he and his family went through all that trouble to get away from. It's part of that change I mentioned in a new thread this morning. They went from telling reasonably believable stories and then moved further and further away from any sort of believability.

    Someone said to me "It's just a TV show." I replied: "I know but I like it better when they at least try to make it look real."
     
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  9. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    It was so appropriate. Of course a screw-up like Cliff would even botch his suicide.

    No. People knew what kind if a man he was. The thought about JR caring about having an unsavory image is kind of amusing, as if he ever seemed to mind people knowing that he did whatever the hell he wanted to do. He would never do something as petty as having an unflattering movie made about Sue Ellen. He was too busy enjoying life to bother with something like that and he wouldn't have wanted John Ross to hear about the movie from the kids at school and be teased about it, which is of course what kids would do.

    She wasn't bright enough to consider that all the kids at school would never let John Ross hear the end of it.

    I like that idea about Lockwood having been hired by JR. It would have been funny to see the look on Sue Ellen's face when she found out.

    I doubt they'd have had her try to shoot someone again; she'd just done that and failed. Would the fans want to see Sue Ellen spend the rest of her life in prison? Probably not. She certainly wouldn't have shot JR. Dallas fans already knew by then that you can't kill JR Ewing with bullets. That had already been tried three times. A fourth would have just been too repetitive.
     
  10. Treeviewer

    Treeviewer Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    That's true enough. The actual moment of her walking out was great, as long as you didn't give too much thought to how little sense it made. Then JR gives lip service to wanting to find the film, until it apparently slips his mind - that's how frightened he was.
     
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  11. Jabari Lamar

    Jabari Lamar Soap Chat Member

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    Yeah, and now his son had been killed, and no one was even being charged for it. I don’t think it’s so unbelievable that that’s the kind of thing that would make a man like him say, f*** it, I’m going do whatever I have to to get the person responsible for killing my son.


    Not everybody, but a former big-time mafia boss? Again, I don’t think it’s so unbelievable that a man like that would still have some contacts in the Underworld that he could call on when necessary. That over his presumably decades in the mafia that he would have made a few associates that he would know would still be loyal to him, or just owe him some favors, and would be willing to help him out, especially in a situation like this.

    At that point all that was left was him and his wife. And with their son dead I can see both of them thinking it’s worth whatever risk to themselves (and it was only likely to the father, the mob would have probably left the mother alone) to get what they considered justice for their dead son.

    I don’t find this particular plot point to be so far from believable.

    The show had been stretching credibility in multiple ways since the first episode.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
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  12. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    The whole point of his family getting into witness protection was to get away from "mafia contacts" if any kind. Even one contact could and would tell others. Why would he trust any contacts at all? because they gave him their word they were loyal to him? Pearce gave his word to the mafia that he'd never snitch. He took the code of Omertà. You never snitch on fellow mafia members. It's considered unforgivable, which is why he had to get into witness protection. After all those years look how hard they tried to find him. They killed the detective April hired because he wouldn't cooperate with them. So what do you think they'd do to Pearce? He betrayed them and he was not a big -time mafia boss. The only reason he could get the witness protection program instead of prison is because he could give our government the names of men who were higher in the pecking order than he was.

    No, that's not true. He still had his other son and his wife. They had a baby too - Joseph Pearce's grandson. Who do you think opened the door when the mafia was searching for Joseph Pearce and went to the house Nicholas took them to? They had a baby too - Joseph Pearce's grandson. That man still had plenty of family to protect.

    Nicholas was to blame for his own death, and to a degree, Sue Ellen because she had him come in with her when they illegally broke into JR's home. They were trespassing, they didn't leave when JR pointed a gun at Nicholas and told them to leave, and then Peace assaulted JR in his own home. He was fighting JR on the balcony, of all the dumb places to fight somebody. It's as clear cut a case of self-defense as there is. Nicholas started the fight. All JR asked was for them to leave. So, once he attacked JR physically, what choice did JR have but defend himself?
     
  13. Snarky's Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come

    Snarky's Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come Soap Chat Oracle

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    DALLAS was made for the bourgeois viewer -- one who thinks Presidents of the Largest Independent Oil Company in the Southwest would be cowed by mafia dons and "the "Underworld".

    Major oil companies set policy that the intelligence community then follows. They are the Underworld. They tell mafia kingpins what to do, not the other way around.
     
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  14. Jabari Lamar

    Jabari Lamar Soap Chat Member

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    Again, his son was dead. He was killed and, as far as he could see at the time, nobody was being held responsible for it. I don't even have any children (at least, none that I know of...), but I can still imagine how under those specific circumstances he would willing to take the risk to his safety in order to get revenge on whoever killed his son. Even if you still think it's unlikely, okay maybe it is, but I just don't think it's so incredibly unbelievable that it exemplifies a downward spiral in writing for the series overall.


    First, the actual name was Lombardi, Pearce was the fake identity. Regardless of what is shown in certain Mafia films and TV shows, there are plenty of examples of real life Mafia members who gone into and come out of Witness Protection and survived. Some even getting back into crime. Look up Sammy "The Bull" Gravano, the leading witness who turned against a little figure by the name of John Gotti (among his many other crimes, he's the one who voluntarily killed the man who accidentally killed one of Gottis's children, just as a favor to Gotti), and helped the Feds finally convict the former "Teflon Don." If anyone was in serious danger of retaliation, it was him. He was in Witness Protection for 5 years until he voluntarily left, because he said it was too restraining of his lifestyle, and while he still took actions to protect himself, he made public appearances, wrote a book, and then eventually got back into crime, leading an Ecstacy selling ring, which eventually lead to his re-arrest an imprisonment (ironically, some of his new gang turned witness against him). And while in jail he was able to order a hit on a judge (which failed). So, yeah, the notion of a major crime figure still having contacts in the underworld isn't so implausible.

    There's also Frank Lucas, played by Denzel Washington in the movie American Gangster, who also turned on may former associates (and crooked cops) and was in Witness Protection for 5 years, but then still managed to get back to dealing drugs and was re-arrested, not to mention Nicky Barnes (played by Cuba Gooding Jr. in that same film) who also turned on his partners and was put in Witness Protection, and while he stayed in it until his death, he still managed to write a book and give interviews. So if real-life gangsters would risk their safety for greed or fame, I don't think it's so hard to believe a fictional gangster in a similar position would risk his safety to avenge his son's murder.

    You got me there, I don't recall that. Still, the risk is usually primarily towards the individual, not their families, although they can sometimes be collateral damage. But usually, they're in Witness Protection to be with their loved on, they're not required to do so. One of Frank Lucas' daughters run an organization for children whose parents are in jail, because she knows what that's like.

    Yes, I agree with all that (as did Mr. Lombardi, when Sue Ellen confessed the events of the night in question & took responsibility), in fact, if you really want to complain about unrealistic plot-points, that's the part that you should be focused on and complaining is unrealistic. A man was dead, and the only two witnesses (both high-profile figures in the state) to that death were each blaming each other, and the police were just like "oh well, I guess we can't tell which one of them is telling the truth, & they don't want to testify against each other, so I guess we'll just drop the matter and forget about it." And that's it? It didn't even become a major news story outside of the original reports of J.R. being shot and surviving? How realistic was that?

    As you rightfully point out, all the evidence backed J.R.'s side of the story. It was his home that Nicholas and Sue Ellen broke into (and they could check the door to see the evidence that Nicholas kicked it open), so pretty much right at that point J.R. has the right of self-defense (especially in a state like Texas), even before the actual fight. And then Sue Ellen shoots him, at point-blank range, with his own gun, claiming that she was worried for her safety? Please! Even if J.R. ultimately would have refused to testify against her I don't see how the police wouldn't have at least arrested her and tried to charge her for something, some kind of charge in relation to Nicholas' death. I've known that to happen in real life, where if two people were committing a crime together and one of them gets killed during the commission of that crime, even if it's by police, the other gets charged for it. But this is one of those cases where the writers didn't clearly think through the consequences of the cliffhanger when they wrote it.

    In fact, now that I think about it, wouldn't have been something if they'd saved that storyline for Sue Ellen's exit from the show? Instead of her flying off to Europe to be with her new man, they could have gone through the repercussions of the shooting and had a trial throughout the next season, and the finale would be the reading of the verdict, where Sue Ellen is found guilty of 2nd-degree murder and sent away to jail. That would serve the purpose of removing the character from the show, in a way that leaves open the possibility for her return someday (like early parole for good behavior or something).
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
  15. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    It wasn't realistic! Not believable at all.

    That was ridiculous. Regarding what JR did, you have the right to defend yourself, and especially in your own home! Sue Ellen wasn't being threatened. She shot him solely out of anger.

    Exactly. Also, JR and Sue Ellen were on such bad terms then that I just don't see him refusing to testify her shooting him for no good reason. He was not threatening her at all. JR wanted custody of John Ross as well, and this would have been the perfect way for him to ensure that he got custody. When Sue Ellen got out of prison eventually either John Ross would be grown up or if not, it would be incredibly unlikely for her to be able to get custody back considering her prison record. For JR to go easy on Sue Ellen by not pressing charges or testifying against her, when he could have just as easily been the one to go over the balcony to his death, and after being shot by Sue Ellen immediately after he turned back around was just so out of character for him that it was terrible script writing.

    That's a nice idea. I would've liked that much better than the way they had Sue Ellen leave. Also, like you said, it would still give the character a chance to return if they wanted.

    BTW, regarding Nicholas' brother and his wife, they were the couple who opened the door when the two hired thugs took Nicholas with them and went looking for his father. They were the ones who informed Nicholas his parents were "dead."
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
  16. Jabari Lamar

    Jabari Lamar Soap Chat Member

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    I'm just glad to see we finally found some common ground!

    P.S. do you read comic-books?
     
  17. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    I'm glad we found common ground too! But no, I never have read read comic books.
     
  18. Jabari Lamar

    Jabari Lamar Soap Chat Member

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    Ah, well, several years ago I used to post on a couple of comic-book-related message boards, and there was a member with your username, and since I'd come here I'd been wondering if you were that same person, since it's not particularly common.
     
  19. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    Wow, that is unusual.
     
  20. Piggy It's Kermit Outside

    Piggy It's Kermit Outside Soap Chat Star

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    Kenny, you sound more and more like a mafioso yourself! All that knowledge...and Kenny Coyote also sounds as fake as...Julie Williams!:eek:
     

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