Dallas Character Swellin' v Pammy! ~ Business Savvy

Discussion in 'Dallas - The Original Series' started by Pammy P, Sep 30, 2016.

  1. Pammy P

    Pammy P Soap Chat Active Member

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    Both Ewing wives eventually found their own "vocation in life" shall we say:

    • Pamela a partner in Barnes Wentworth
    • Swellin turning Valentine Lingerie into a Multi Million $$$$$ business
    Which had the most business savvy would you say?

    I am on the fence, both were successful in their own ways?

    Swellin had the best teacher in JR and Pamela I suppose in Cliff/Bob!
     
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  2. Justine

    Justine Soap Chat Fan

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    I'm inclined to say Sue Ellen. Pam wasn't dumb by any means, but Sue Ellen's business seemed to be a much more independent journey, whereas (from what I remember) Pam was almost always in partnership with someone else - Cliff, Mark etc.
     
  3. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    I believe Pam had more business savvy. Sue Ellen only bought Valentine Lingerie so she could hire Mandy to break up her and JR. Well, when you have a woman who looks like Deborah Shelton as your lingerie model, it's hard to fail. She didn't even hire Mandy for business reasons; it was personal. She would have hired Mandy whether she could have been successful or not so the success was more luck than anything. Then when she wanted to proceed without Mandy, Sue Ellen had no clue as to how to do it. JR told her who to call for help and JR's friend assigned Pearce to the job. Nicholas Pearce did all the work and Sue Ellen just did what he told her to do.

    Pam was in a situation where Cliff was trying to use her more as a financier than as a partner. Cliff was more of a liability to Pam than an asset. He even paid for his divorce settlement with money she loaned him. So then she demanded 25% and got of his company in exchange for financing his deals, which was smart.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
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  4. Miss Texas 1967

    Miss Texas 1967 Soap Chat Fan

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    I might be forgetting huge chunks of story, but I barely remember Pam doing anything business related. From the missed opportunity partnership sparring with JR at Ewing Oil after Bobby's death to whatever it was she did at Barnes-Wentworth, she never really seemed to actually be making decisions (at least in my memory, clearly I need to do a rewatch). I'd almost say she was more successful as an employee at The Store. We can't forget that short lived, pointless aerobics studio plot too (what even happened to that??).

    What I remember much more clearly is Sue Ellen's business ventures. Purchasing a company to spite JR and screw with his relationship with Mandy was probably not textbook when it comes to the economics (though it was entertaining). I think Sue Ellen has to win here because she actually ended up making a success of what she owned, generating far more of a profit than Oswald Valentine did when he was running things. They gave a (somewhat) realistic explanation for how she made a success of the business too, showing her changing the product style and marketing, talking about how she'd been observing JR for years, then later showing her seeking external assistance from a brokerage firm to expand statewide (nationally?).

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. tommie

    tommie Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    I dunno
    Anything relating to Pam and business was very much "80s working mom-woman who has black coffee in the morning". It's just utterly forgettable, when season nine in particular should've been the season where Pam and JR should've gone head-to-head. Hell, maybe they wouldn't even had to bring back Bobby if they did...
     
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  6. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    It's still going in Downtown Dallas. I believe a guy named Nicolas Treviño now runs the place.
     
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  7. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    I never bought Sue Ellen having the business brains. Actually by the time this plot mess had rolled around I was dropping in and out of Dallas. I do believe however the writers were on target with the character of Pam becoming something more than a Stepford Wife. Though desperate to have a child she also wished to work, something which rattled the Ewing men and Sue Ellen in those early seasons I might add. I'd go even further and say Sue Ellen was envious of Pam having a life outside of Southfork.

    I know it made for drama but I think Sue Ellen finding and running some type of foundation would have worked for the character instead of her constant need to justify her existence with men, booze, men, booze...and JR.

    By the time Bobby's death had come I thought it was a natural progression to have Pam placed in the hot seat, Ewing Oil. For me anyway it felt like this is what Dallas had been walking to. But it would appear the writers/producers were terrified of having a powerful, independent, business type woman on Dallas...but as I type this I think of Marilee Stone.
     
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  8. tommie

    tommie Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    I dunno
    I've said time and time again - in season nine I wanted a full-on office show down between Pam and JR with Pam actually threatening JR in his office, knocking down things with every step and as she gets closer, JR takes a step back, finally ending with JR realising that this "Barnes woman" is a real threat.
     
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  9. Michael Torrance

    Michael Torrance Soap Chat Dream Maker

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    David Jacobs' original conception of the arc back in 1978 was that Bobby would die leaving Pam and J.R. ("good and evil" he called it in an interview) to duke it off. But apparently Patrick Duffy on screen changed his mind. And the show had a chance to do that arc years later, but they opted for bubbles.
     
  10. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    This scenario Tommie - in a way - had already occured when Pam finds out JR had sent her island hopping throughout the Caribbean looking for Mark. She stormed JR's office with that famous opening line, "You filthy snake!"

    JR.jpg

    There was also the scene when Pam surprises JR as he is about to enter the Ewing Building the day after Cliff is arrested allegedly for shooting Bobby.

    Pam.jpg

    In both cases JR is genuinely shaken by Pam. Like you Tommie I wanted these two worlds collide. It would have been a true Ewing - Barnes dogfight. Pam is determined to honour Bobby's wishes by protecting Christopher's interest in Ewing Oil. JR will attempt any dirty trick to force her out. Two of the most iconic characters in Dallas, head to head. Besides. If the writers didn't intend to take this story in that direction they could have easily given Christopher's stake in Ewing Oil to Jenna, Miss Ellie or even Donna. But they gifted that right to Pam. Yes I understand she is the mother but still, I think having Pam and JR at Ewing Oil would have been better than the fight for Ewing Oil after Jock's death.

    Pick your side ladies and gentlemen.
     
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  11. tommie

    tommie Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    I dunno
    It was a weak scene imho because it lead to nothing.

    The scenario I have in mind would be Pam entering JRs office, knocking over knick-knacks, furniture or whatever until she finally gets in JRs face. And I wouldn't want him to be merely "shaken" - I'd want there to be a genuine fear that someone might finally beat him at his own game. I want the office to look like a pure mess after she leaves.
     
  12. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    That's a tough one.

    On one side you have a woman who has a high school diploma and experience in working at department stores. She also ran an aerobics studio for almost a year I think. Bobby once offered to get her a job at Ewing Oil but she had no inclination to go into the oil business. Then she ended up leaving Bobby and one of the reasons she gave was that she didn't like the type of man that fighting to reach the top of the independent oil business had caused him to become. She'd try to talk him out of it by asking him how much money did they have to have and telling him that she just wanted a nice, normal life with Bobby and that things like money and power just weren't very important to her. She said she was disgusted by the things that Bobby had done while he was competing for the right to run Ewing Oil permanently. She said she didn't have the stomach for it.

    Then on the other side you've got a man a who is a graduate of the University Of Texas who has spent his whole life wanting to be in the oil business and most of his life working in it. He was personally taught the business by Jock Ewing from the time he was just a young boy. He has spent the majority of his adult life either running Ewing Oil or being being second only to Jock Ewing himself at Ewing Oil. He has a natural aptitude for the oil business and enjoys it tremendously.

    It's too close to call ;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
  13. Toni

    Toni Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    Nah, Pam had to close that place because she took Ugly Baby there every day, and, of course, the clientele was so scared that they left!

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    I thought the scene itself was one of the most memorable in Dallas history. The anger felt by Pam was justified after years tolerating JR's meddling. But you are right. It led to nothing and that was the issue I took umbrage with.
     
  15. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd say Pam since having a career seemed more important to her. She was used to work for a living and when she started at Barnes-Wentworth she wanted to learn the business and she wanted to be taken seriously. She was annoyed when Cliff left her alone to charm a client since she wanted to be more than just looks. I think that is a curse that some beautiful women faces since some men expect women to be beautiful or bright. They are not expected to be both. :(

    Sue Ellen's business ventures on the other hand were all related to JR. First she bought a lingerie company to get rid of JR's mistress. Her main goal was to get rid of Mandy. That the business was a success was just a plus. Then she made a movie to get back at JR and that pretty much sums up Sue Ellen's whole career.

    Of course later on Sue Ellen did end up running Ewing Oil with Bobby and running for governor etc. But I feel like it's unfair to take that into account since we have no clue of what Pam would be doing at that point in her life if she'd still been in Dallas. Her story was cut short much earlier so therefore I only want to take into account what we saw on the original Dallas and not later on.
     
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