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Tyler Perry's The Haves and the Have Nots

Discussion in 'Sundry Prime Time Soaps' started by Jason73, May 27, 2017.

  1. Brian Kinney

    Brian Kinney Soap Chat Member EXP: 1 Year

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    So Wyatt fantasises about killing everyone but isn't able to stay sober to do it? I wonder if Veronica is now done for real. Not that I mind, they overdone her evilness too much to be still entertaining. Especially the homophobic remarks are unbearable to me. I'm just sad for David, he deserves better. Is Kathryn really into the one 'R' Rick? She actually seems to care for him. And the actor's appearances on Dynasty as Cristal's brother were too short. So he deserves a little happiness. Oh and Hanna's actress Crystal Fox was in the last episode of Big Little Lies playing Zoe Kravitz's mother. I only recognized her voice, she is so much more attractive when dressed different. A whole other person, great actress.
     
  2. Brian Kinney

    Brian Kinney Soap Chat Member EXP: 1 Year

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    A crazy season 7 finale (seventh according to this source) in which Wyatt finally does what he was fantasising about... or, wait: Veronica is still alive after been drowned for eternity in the pool. But we know now how she survived because Jim reminded David that the Queen was actually a lifeguard during high school days. Of course, why not? At this point though I already assumed she is a vampire and David a superhero because he killed all of Queenie's goons I'm sure (that is up to our imagination because they showed only the Queen outside smoking).

    But how are the white Haves to survive the bloodbath in which all (including Wyatt) seemed pretty dead to me? I think something about the final minutes felt like a dream: since when is the police so fast arriving at a crime scene? Who called them? The Cryers don't live in hear-sight of anyone.

    And while Jim was genuinely surprised by Wyatt's action Kathryn had a certain advantage in the situation which she didn't use and this isn't typical for her. She acted rather as she was starring in a teen slasher flick - not the cool Kathryn we know. So I rather think this is a dream that started when Jim left his son in his room to argue with Kathryn. That gave Wyatt enough time to do coke and drifting into his tribute to the Moldavian Massacre. Next season he wakes up, he takes a shower and greets the viewers with a tongue-in-cheek "Good morning!".

    I know Perry's show isn't known for paying homages or showing any other hint of real creativity but please do it here just for once. Because it's easier to believe than to have all three survive the mass murder and I want them all to stay because the Cryers are the most entertaining characters to me.

    Also: the careers of Tika Sumpter (Candace), Crystal Fox (Hanna) and Rome Flynn (R -whatever) all seem to head outside of the Perryverse and Kristian Kordula (Landon) is already absent. Keep Kathryn, Jim and Wyatt!

    BTW: Nice scene with Justin and muscle Madison, first time I actually cared about the creepy ex-cop well played by Nicholas James.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  3. Daniel Avery

    Daniel Avery Super Moderator EXP: 19 Years Staff Member

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    What I noticed most about this mid-season finale is TP's over-reliance on violence for plot movement. There's always been more of it than your average soap, but in two episodes we had a violent prison rape; attempted murder via drowning; a double (seeming) homicide involving a child killing his parents; the (seeming) killing of that child by the cops; the ordering of a 'hit' on David and Jeffery, as well as their retaliation/self-defense...all while the 'hits' on Wyatt and Benny hanging over their heads until the last few minutes. I lived in Savannah for forty years and I had no idea the Hired Goon industry was so strong in that town.

    I'd like to think the shootings at the Cryer mansion are a dream, but TP typically goes more for 'mis-direction' than outright dream sequences. It would be easily explainable that Wyatt managed to wound but not kill his parents, that the inexplicably quick arrival of the police* will work in their favor as they get taken to the hospital...and that the police intentionally shot to wound/disarm Wyatt rather than outright kill him. Wyatt's shotgun was old and un-used for a long time, so it's aim might be lousy, and of course he was stoned at the time. Frankly I would not be too saddened if they did kill off Wyatt, since he hasn't been an important player in the show for several seasons...though it would be interesting if they could re-hab his character the way they did with Candace (which was overdue, if you ask me).

    As much as I hated the whole "President Elect" storyline, they managed to achieve some story goals through it. The fallout got Candace to declare a truce with Hanna, and Jim will likely get the Attorney General to drop his and Kathryn's case in exchange for info on Candace's activities. With Candace getting dumped that way, it allows them to write off Charles (and probably Landon) and focus on Savannah again, and gives the writers the chance to wipe the slate clean with respect to all the past crimes that hang over the heads of the Cryers and Harringtons. It's been eight seasons and they still had that whole "Wyatt ran over that little girl" story from season one hanging over them; a better-written soap would have solved that issue within a year.

    When Kathryn secretly moved Roderick into Wyatt's old apartment, I was convinced the Malones (who had a hit out on Wyatt) would mistake Roderick for Wyatt and gun him down in the apartment. It would be a mistaken-identity murder similar to what happened to Maggie Day, and hopefully rid us of the whole Artesian Hotel storyline. Alas, my hunch was wrong; there apparently won't be a hit on Wyatt thanks to Mitch's fancy footwork. Then again, Wyatt got gunned down anyway.:yikey:

    I was glad to see they remembered Mitch, and they seem to be guiding him toward becoming a more 'gray' character. The actor is very charismatic and waving around bundles of money doesn't hurt his attractiveness at all. :D He's certainly more watchable than Benny, who becomes more two-dimensional every year.

    When Kathryn finally got Derek on the phone, I could swear that wasn't the voice of the actor who originally played him. This, along with his "drop off the face of the earth" this past nine episodes tells me they must be recasting the part. I half-expected Derek to blow his brains out mid-call with Kathryn, given the orgy of violence the past few episodes have been.

    * I'm thinking the police were already on their way out there in connection with the grand jury's indictment of the Cryers and the Harringtons. Why else would George, the District Attorney (not a police officer) be along for the ride? He has been obsessed with "getting" Jim Cryer for so long that he'd want to be on hand when they were arrested. They were actually indicted two days before (HAHN-time) and I had wondered why the police had not taken them all in within the hour.
     
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  4. Brian Kinney

    Brian Kinney Soap Chat Member EXP: 1 Year

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    But for what other buildings could they use the hotel sets instead? Perry doesn't just close them. And as much as I like Mitch - yes he's way more interesting than Benny (and a better actor) - I hope that doesn't mean we see more of the Malone family because the show really has too much crime (Law and Order: Savannah). Also I don't like the seedy bar set. I prefer watching men selling their hot bodies in that hotel.

    I hope they keep Wyatt because I like the total craziness of that family on a level that isn't as outlandish as Veronica is towards Jeffrey and David. And at least there was no glee when Wyatt killed them. BTW it's weird that Jeffrey and Wyatt are both so involved with their parents considering their assumed age. I would have them sharing an apartment to rekindle their difficult bromance from Season 1. With Justin and Madison Muscle as frequent guests because the hospital set looks so boringly sterile.

    To me Veronica is the weakest link of the show: she is at a point where redemption seems to be impossible and continuing that character as she is also seems dead end to me. I don't like viewing people torturing others without consequence. While I was not the slightest uncomfortable with Kathryn killing Jennifer because it was fast and without terrorizing the poor woman I'm having a problem how Veronica is doing the bad things. Especially the verbal insults are way beyond anything I want to hear in a soap (or any other TV show for that matter). And I noticed that the actress is barely varying her voice in those scenes (different to earlier seasons) - she may be frustrated by the one-dimensionality of it too.
     
  5. Daniel Avery

    Daniel Avery Super Moderator EXP: 19 Years Staff Member

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    In one of the previous seasons they actually had Wyatt clean up and go sober. They even paired him romantically with his substance-abuse counselor. It was the only time he showed promise...and someone on the writing staff decided to scuttle that whole arc and have him go right back to drugs. ​


    If Wyatt were making an effort to overcome his addiction, or even expressed the wish to overcome it, I think Jeffery would offer his support and/or assistance. Unfortunately Wyatt is too wrapped up in blaming his parents for everything wrong in his life to even notice that he's an adult, much less notice that he is his own worst enemy. Like I said earlier, he is just as passive-aggressive as his mother, so even as he had/has the means to get out of his hopeless situation, he stayed and continued to speed along the path to self-destruction---mostly to punish his parents. The whole back-story they've developed (he was sexually abused as a child at summer camp by a priest, apparently) in an effort to explain his addictive personality and self-loathing could be explored further, but I have no idea if the show wants to go so 'deep' with Wyatt. Obviously they can give an emotional story like that to a lead actress like Crystal Fox (and she has had several dumped on her over the years), but Aaron O'Connell is no Crystal Fox.

    Veronica is indeed well into "irredeemable" territory, whether Tyler Perry wants to believe it or not. Making her too smart for the room (not making mistakes in her revenge plots and cover-ups) and now seemingly physically invulnerable (she's been run off the road, pushed off balconies, drowned, etc.) ventures into the sort of anti-MarySue territory that makes people start to fall out of love with her antics. She needs to be shown in genuine jeopardy, in genuine fear for her life or something similar once in a while just to keep her from becoming too much of a cartoon. I thought we were going to get that when the FBI investigators seemed not to be dropping the investigation into her planting the bomb that killed Erica (and almost killed Federal Judge David), but I haven't seen any movement on that. There was a curious (but thoughtful) scene with her maid Alice, who'd finally had enough of Veronica's constant abuse and dismissive attitude. When Alice announced she was quitting, she pointed out that Veronica ought not be so quick to dismiss the "little people" like her (Alice), because they see things...and know things...and Veronica ought to realize that the "little people" can easily be the downfall of people who think they are better than everyone else. It was a nifty little seed they planted that said Alice (or some other person Veronica treated horribly, one of the 'have nots') could very easily bring her down if they spoke to the right people. Time will tell if that was foreshadowing or if it was just filler. When Kathryn chased her through the mansion wielding a knife for an entire episode, we saw Veronica at her most "mortal" and made it an even match--and much more exciting even if we knew neither woman was going to be going anywhere.

    He burned down the "first" Cryer mansion when they switched studios; I have to say I liked that other mansion more than the current one, although it looks much more like a mansion that would exist in Savannah. The original had "Dunwoody" or "Buckhead" (Atlanta) written all over it. But the hotel won't be going anywhere, I'll assume. Hanna is supposedly going to be working there in some kind of management position in their housekeeping offices. Kathryn offered her the job over a year ago (our time) but of course that's like...three days ago their time. :eek: Anyway, she mentioned going to work there in the most recent episode so they obviously remember it. They could have Benny take a job there too...he hasn't had a proper job since the tow-truck business went tits-up. If the Three R's are still in hiding from the FBI, Benny might claim one of their jobs.

    It occurred to me last night that the show made a bit of a goof by saying that Jeffery comes up in Justin's records as his "next of kin". We met Justin's mother, Pearl (a kind of ditzy, casual bigot who was Candace's neighbor) and his ex-wife (who was his current wife then). If Justin's lying in a hospital bed, beaten to a pulp, you'd think Jeffery or maybe Madison would contact his mother and urge her to step in. Hell, if he'd tell her half the stuff he just told Madison, she could have him placed in a psychiatric facility to work out his homicidal/suicidal/obsessive tendencies. His ex-wife (a Judge) would probably sign the papers to have him committed once they learn he tried to blow his head off. I guess they need to keep the actor on the show rather than send his character away since he and Tika Sumpter are an item.
     
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  6. Brian Kinney

    Brian Kinney Soap Chat Member EXP: 1 Year

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    As always many thoughtful insights, thank you!

    I think the ties between Jeffrey and his mother and ex-wife are forever broken and it's the patient's choice to name a "next of kin".

    As interesting the backstory of Wyatt could be that's probably also the only way to understand Veronica - he's traumatized by the rape(s) and something more must happened in her past that made her such a homophobic bitch. But will they show it or continue to forget about it? The latter I assume...

    Now will Hanna get one of the other R's? ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  7. Daniel Avery

    Daniel Avery Super Moderator EXP: 19 Years Staff Member

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    No, but I'd love to see Hanna attempt to 'mother' RK...her lectures about doing the "righteous" thing fall on Benny's deaf ears, so she might take on RK as a "pet project", and he might actually want some sort of mother figure. She had a few minutes of that with Melissa before she decided to take a header off the roof. The writers keep passing RK off to other characters to interact with, so maybe it'll be Hanna's turn.

    I'm assuming the story Veronica told David beside the pool (saying Jeffery's father was some employee of David's who was actually bisexual) was just that--a story, which she made up to test David to see if he was genuinely trying to reconcile with her. We can say both of them failed the test. o_O If they were to stick with that story, however, it doesn't really explain her being so homophobic. She only had that affair because she felt neglected; she didn't really "love" the guy she slept with, so his so-called betrayal would not have scarred her that much. I think some people are just wired to be that way, and they ought to just stick with her homophobia just being a part of her personality alongside her other negative traits (of which there are many). I don't think the show wants to explore the depths of her depravity simply because they're having too much fun with her acting out that depravity. Look at how relatively easy they went with reforming Candace, a character who has a lot more emotional baggage to unpack since she's spent most of the series as the lead character. There wasn't a lot of introspection and tears. If they want to continue with the "kinder, softer" Candace, they'll have to keep Veronica as the Bitch on Wheels since they don't seem able to write a show without lots of backstabbing and betrayals (and yes, violent confrontations).
     
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