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Was Bobby A Bully?

Discussion in 'Dallas - The Original Series' started by Kenny Coyote, Oct 20, 2018.

  1. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Fan

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    I remember that well. That whole business with the phony letter was inexcusable but that's a separate issue from what Mark Graison was doing. Mark didn't know about that scheme or have any part in it. Bobby and Pam were still married when Mark took Pam to France on his private plane! What did Bobby do about that when he saw Mark next? Nothing. When a man who isn't any physical threat to Bobby even says something to Pam, Bobby's throwing punches. Mark was trying to seduce Pam. More bluntly, Mark was trying to take Bobby's wife from him and all of the sudden Bobby's a pacifist?

    Remember, this is the same guy who told Jeff Faraday if he ever went near Pam again he'd kill him. It's interesting how protective of Pam Bobby could be when only confronted with a guy who was maybe 5 foot 7 and 140 pounds. As soon as it's a man roughly his physical equal, Bobby isn't a tough guy anymore is he?

    I think Bobby might have been able to handle Mark Graison too, but it wouldn't be easy and that's the difference maker here. Maybe Bobby would win a fight with Mark but he's still gotta do it!
     
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  2. Seaviewer

    Seaviewer Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    It's an interesting question. I tend to come down more on the side that Bobby simply had a short fuse but, as Lastkidpicked says, seen through today's lens, solving problems through violence is not as acceptable no matter how justified the cause may seem.
     
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  3. Mustard

    Mustard Soap Chat Active Member

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    On the other hand, J.R. doesn't seem to like that sort of physical violence and bullying that Bobby resorts to. J.R.'s violence and bullying is a different kind, of the digging for dirt and blackmail sort, of setting up incidents and "accidents", of running people out of town etc. He can put on a good PR show in front of the cameras that makes him look like a man of the people in a way that Bobby can't. He was particularly good at this during the Battle for Ewing Oil in Season 6 DVD, when giving out all that cheap gas across the US and making out that he was doing it for the hard working Americans, and then using the angle of wanting to visit Revolutionary Cuba as a way of finding similarities between Cubans and Americans, when in reality he wanted to pick up that fat cheque for the illegally shipped oil.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
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  4. Mustard

    Mustard Soap Chat Active Member

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    I'm onto Season 14 DVD on my Dallas marathon now, with April and Bobby having left John Ross and Christopher at Sue Ellen's in London after spending a few days of their honeymoon there, and now with April and Bobby taking their disastrous honeymoon trip to Paris and her resulting death. Bobby's temper in his interactions with Sheila Foley didn't exactly help April, nor Jordan Lee. I can't blame Bobby for their deaths and I feel sorry for him, but he could have played the situation a lot better than he did. He should have at least played along for a bit in a more outwardly agreeable fashion and waited his chance. As it was, he always made his impatience very obvious to Sheila and aroused suspicions at all times. And when trying to rescue April, make damn sure that you don't fail to rescue and you actually get out of Paris.

    J.R. would have handled that complicated political situation a lot better than Bobby did. He'd have gotten April and Jordan out alive, in my opinion, even that version of J.R., who was losing his golden touch more and more. And I suppose to Bobby's credit, he did try to get J.R. over there, but J.R. was locked up in a sanitarium and Jordan Lee was murdered when trying to phone over there.
     
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  5. retrosonic

    retrosonic Soap Chat Member

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    Cant agree Bobby was a bully, but Ray and Gary were definitely more fair minded, especially Ray.

    Gary, I always liked a lot because despite his many weaknesses, he didnt idolize Jock irrationally like JR and Ray did, Gary understood that Jock was just a man, and not a superman. Gary resented Jock for his treatment of him, even in death Jock disparaged Gary by leaving him "the interest on 10 million dollars" rather than the money itself. But Gary soldiers on, making his own way with no help from the Ewing name. In many ways, its Gary that is the Ewing to be admired and respected. Bobby, for all his virtues, could and would get down in the dirt as much JR did.....i remember Bobby setting somebody up in the fight for Ewing oil. Rays character was never really developed as a Ewing "Brother", but rather, as an independant character. I often thought that they should have made Ray the half brother from the start. Would have made for some very cool plot lines.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
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  6. stevew

    stevew Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    Good point. Jock would have kicked his ass right there. Then mustered every friend he had to bankrupt Mark. Maybe drive him to a early grave. But he sure would have gave the man one hell of a beating.
     
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  7. stevew

    stevew Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    Interesting take. I can see your point. I’m not sure Jock would have ever come around to being very proud of Gary though. Gary was someone Jock would never understand. Bobby and JR were both equal parts Jock, as I saw it, physical and underhanded. He’d kill to survive and he was always in survival mode. I don’t think Jock would ever understand Gary but I do think Gary would understand Jock and at that point he’d be able to let it go.
     
  8. retrosonic

    retrosonic Soap Chat Member

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    Steve: a very well thought out comment, thanks for posting that. I agree 100%, Jock would never understand Gary. What Val would call compassion in Gary, Jock would deem as weakness. But Gary was open enough to understand Jock, and why he was the way he was. As I said in an earlier post....Gary may be the Ewing to most admire and respect.
     
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  9. Barbara Fan

    Barbara Fan Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Would never have said this back in the day as i thought there was a halo on his head

    but

    Yes he was, he had a temper, liked his own way and used his fists too often when watching with hind sight
     
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  10. lbf522

    lbf522 Soap Chat Active Member

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    I felt that way during the run of the series that Bobby to me was a bully and a thug who I had no use for.
     
  11. stevew

    stevew Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    I always thought Gary was the good son all messed up (Bullied by his dad and babied by his mom, not a good combination) and replaced by Ray, a more grounded good guy who could throw a punch when called upon to do so. JR was the put upon oldest and Bobby the spoiled baby. As such he could be a bully and even a good guy because really he had to pay for nothing so nothing had a cost for him. JR had to marry a trophy wife, Bobby could get away with marrying into his family’s greatest irritation. Women through themselves at Bobby. JR had to buy or worse to get his women. Even JR gave Bobby a pass at every turn. Even in the TNT version Bobby was a brat and JR was just folding to give into him. At least the way I saw it.
     
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  12. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Fan

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    That's interesting. I hadn't thought about it in terms of Gary being bullied by his dad and babied by his mom but now I'm wondering, how differently do you think Gary would have turned out if he hadn't been bullied or babied?
     
  13. Mustard

    Mustard Soap Chat Active Member

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    J.R. was much worse for Gary at that time than Jock was. Jock was a very tough father, but a bachelor J.R. in his 20s had a very hostile agenda when a teenage Gary arrived home with a pregnant wife from a poor area of Shula, Tennessee. And while Jock did come to like Valene, J.R. certainly didn't. Jock wanted Gary to be responsible now that Gary was a husband and father, to stop running away from his responsibilities. J.R. was determined that Gary wouldn't be able to hack it, because J.R. feared Gary's potential within the family and all that underlying anger of Gary's in insisting on doing things his own way. J.R. was threatened by it. So when Gary buckles under the pressure, Jock sees it as Gary failing to have guts, and running away again. Jock expects Gary to stand up to J.R. and fight against him, but Gary hated the whole pressure.
     
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  14. Taylor Bennett Jr.

    Taylor Bennett Jr. Soap Chat Fan

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    Just checked to see if there's a real Shula, TN, and it looks like there isn't. I like how they sometimes throw in football names (coach Don Shula in this case, longtime Cowboys safety Charlie Waters as the roughneck who was on the crew on section 40 in season 1 DVD Dallas)

    Speaking of football, one thing I always found unrealistic about the way they they portrayed Bobby was that he was the QB for the UT Longhorns less than 10 years before the show began (I think maybe the writers switched it to SMU later in the series - still a big deal), but he was rarely treated as a football hero by Ewing outsiders. Someone like that would be at least a minor celebrity more for that than for being an oil company scion in football-mad Texas. Good old boys would be slapping his back and asking about that game in '70 against the Oklahoma Sooners, etc. left and right.

    (or, as the Guzzler brought up, that 80 yard run, I'm guessing against the Colorado Buffaloes, the game immortalized on the game ball shown below.)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
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  15. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Fan

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    I don't think necessarily think Jock bullied and Ellie babied Gary but since that's stevew's take on it, I'm interested in what he or anyone else who sees it that way, thinks about how Gary's parents doing that affected him and in what ways do they think Gary would have turned out differently if his parents hadn't done either of those things. It's interesting to see how different people think about things and to find out why they think the way they do.

    I found that statement interesting even though I don't perceive the situation between Gary and Jock the same way. The way I see it, Jock didn't bully Gary; he was just heartbroken. I remember Jock saying: "It broke my heart when I found out Gary didn't have any guts." I'd be heartbroken too if I found out my son didn't have any guts.

    Another thing about Gary that was naturally very upsetting is he got a 15 year old girl pregnant! What kind of father wouldn't be upset to find out his son got a 15 year old girl pregnant? That's something I can't see any responsible father wanting that for his son, just like what kind of father wouldn't be disappointed that his son becomes an alcoholic and a compulsive gambler?

    I think every character in Dallas was flawed to some degree or another. Characters with no flaws aren't realistic. Gary just had so many flaws though. We only saw Gary a few times but even in that short period of time we found out:
    Gary got a 15 year old pregnant.
    Gary became an alcoholic.
    Gary became a compulsive gambler.
    When faced with a challenging situation, rather than facing it, Gary runs away.

    Add that up and I can't imagine it not breaking a parent's heart.
     
  16. Taylor Bennett Jr.

    Taylor Bennett Jr. Soap Chat Fan

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    regarding Gary's treatment by Jock and Ellie and how that influenced him, obviously that was a big factor, but I've found that some people just by nature are the shy, gentle, sensitive type. Maybe it's some kind of recessive gene? Of my cousins and extended family, for instance, maybe 1 out of 4 are that way, and it doesn't seem to have anything to do with their parental circumstances.

    I'm not very familiar with Knots Landing Gary, but the original David Ackroyd portrayal really seemed to be a naturally gentle, sensitive soul - and you can see how that would utterly baffle Jock.
     
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  17. Seaviewer

    Seaviewer Soap Chat TV Fanatic

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    I don't think Val was from Shula - that's where she disappeared to in her secret identity of Verna Ellers.

    LiliMae talked about a Husky Corners, Tennessee but that doesn't come up on Google either.
     
  18. lbf522

    lbf522 Soap Chat Active Member

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    Love your analysis Stevew. I viewed Bobby as a mindless hothead who showed more loyalty to his wife and her brother than to his own family like when he was angry and moved off the ranch after JR shut down that oil well which he was right to do. Cliff had made their lives a living hell and had recently tried to have Jock arrested for murder. Now if it had been Digger who came into JR's office with that document, I would have been OK with it.

    Speaking as someone who grew up with a half sibling who was a bully, I can spot one and Bobby was that. He seemed to always resort to violence and threats at the drop of a hat like that bothered like that the first scene between Bobby, Pamela, and Cliff after Cliff lost that election.

    And then there was after Jock had that heart attack and the family went overboard in their concern and Jock decided to be a jerk and yell his as family and take up with Julie Gray. Jock's was a jerk but Bobby was worst. That scene at the table with JR. I could never put up with this person on a daily basis.

    And there was when JR and Ray were grieving Jock and Bobby decided to be a jerk to both of them. I decide how I mourn and for how long.

    And let's not forget Bobby's lack of loyalty when Pamela kidnapped his brother's son.

    On Dallas TNT, Bobby was worst. He tries to sell Southfork without informing JR, Gary, or Lucy to see if any of them may want it and when JR attempts to purchase Southfork, Bobby got angry.

    I did not care for his threatning John Ross or assaulting Ryland either.

    Patrick Duff portrayed Bobby well but I had little use for the character.

    So yes Bobby was a bully.
     
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  19. Taylor Bennett Jr.

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    Yeah, that seemed really strange and out of character... later on, I concluded he was likely really reacting to what JR had done to the cartel boys, swindling them with the Asian leases (which was orders of magnitude worse than what he did to Cliff) and the fact that Jock circled the Ewing wagons around JR, defending him to Jordan Lee and Vaughn Leland when he surely knew JR was lying when he said he didn't know about the impending revolution.

    Since acknowledging the duplicity of that would have meant defying Jock's word, he chose Cliff's lease as his reason for leaving (whether consciously or subconsciously), as that was easier to process than defying his dad and possibly admitting he was as dishonest as JR.

    (this is an excellent thread, btw!)
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
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  20. Mel O'Drama

    Mel O'Drama Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm in agreement with this comment. In addition to being realistic it's also what makes them compelling to watch.



    He did indeed.



    Interesting. I thought Jock's comment revealed far more about his own flaws than Gary's.




    Exactly.
     
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