Discussion in 'Dallas - The Original Series' started by stevew, Apr 28, 2017.
Just saw this while we were chatting
@Sarah: Please accept my sincere apology! I'm not sure what order they all left in other than VP and SH were amongst the first to leave. And that's why I wrote "etc."!
No need to apologise my dear @Ms Southworth - I tend to get defensive over my Linda. Just me having a hissy fit, not your fault.
It was my understanding Leonard Katzman desperately wanted the Pam story wrapped up hence the hiring of Margaret Michaels. It also explains why Margaret was put in the position of sitting in a chair, badly lit, while Dr.Gordon stood next to her as she spoke with Cliff. It was a silly way of trying to wrap up the mess they created. I could have lived with the fact Pam was out there somewhere on this planet, well away from the snake-pit of Southfork. It may have been an unfinished story most Dallas fans didn't like but every now and then there is something engaging about not getting the happy-ever-after ending.
I really didn't like the Pam look-a-like plot. I remember when I first watched the show I was so excited when he saw her since I thought she was really Pam. I wanted to see how they would solve that plot with her coming back and if Bobby and Christopher would forgive her for leaving like she did. But after waiting a whole week to find out what was going to happen it was a real let down to find out that it was just a silly look-alike. The whole plot was horrible.
Now was for the original question. I voted for Forget TNT but keep the reunion movies simply because if we want to keep TNT we would be stuck with Cynthia Cidre since she developed the characters for that one and owns the Rylands and Ramos characters. So it would be very hard to continue on from Dallas TNT with a different show runner and I think we can all agree that a different show runner would be a must as CC drove what we knew as Dallas into the ground and it flopped so bad.
Why I would keep the movies is because of some important plot development like the Ewings took back Ewing Oil, the company was once again in the family which set up the stage for the next generation (John Ross & Chris) to work there and continue on their grandfather's legacy. JR Returns reunited JR/SE and also Cliff with Afton and Pamela Rebecca.
But yeah realistically I doubt we could ever completely disregard the Dallas TNT series since if another mini-series or season ever is done with the show I think the audience expects it to continue on from that point since like it or not it's part of the official Dallas canon. But yeah if the show would ever come back it's essential to make clear that Christopher didn't die in that stupid explosion!
I still wish we'd get a five part mini-series focusing on the original Dallas though and that would reunite Bobby & Pam. That would also include fan favorites like Sue Ellen, Ray, Lucy, Donna, Jenna, Cliff, Afton and all of the next generation kids like Charlie, John Ross, Chris, Pamela Rebecca, Lucas and Margaret. I know it's never gonna happen but its nice to dream and I guess ten years ago I didn't really expect Dallas to come back for three seasons so I guess stranger things have happened.
But yeah it's a shame Dallas wasn't brought back five years earlier and with a different show runner as then Dallas could have become a success again and now it's too late really, as Dallas without JR will never be the same.
Aww thank you that's so sweet of you to say that. I am glad you enjoy my version of what happened after the original show so much.
But well since it's set in 1995 the only way that could realistically be what happened after the show went off the air is if it was released as an official tie-in novel series continuing on from the original Dallas...
Or if it was filmed with a brand new cast. But honestly I would never want to see a new Dallas with other people playing JR, Sue Ellen, Bobby, Pam, Lucy, Ray, Donna, Jenna, Miss Ellie, Clayton, Cliff, Afton and Mitch since it just wouldn't be Dallas with other actors in those parts!
But oh well if anyone else is interested in reading my fanfic you can find the first four episodes (out of 100) in the writer's room. Enjoy!
The dream revelation made Dallas the butt of jokes and ended it being taken seriously by the wider public in terms of its drama. Previously, I think Dallas was taken seriously for its drama by its more casual viewers, but after the dream revelation only Dallas' stronger fans took it seriously. Dallas would have survived the dream revelation in a creative sense, and Season 10 does have some good storylines. However, it was all the post-Season 10 nonsense after Pam went that ruined things (especially Seasons 12-14). They made a massive mistake, refused to acknowledge it, exacerbated it, and then stumbled from one mistake to the next until Dallas ended on a whimper a few years later. I think there was also a lack of professionalism, where certain people's anger at Victoria Principal and the fans complaining about Pam's situation, was bleeding into the scripts.
Whatever the disputes were behind the scenes between Phil Capice and Leonard Katzman what they presented on screen was just magic in those first several seasons.
That's exactly how myself and numerous friends at the time viewed it. When I switched jobs and companies I was working with mature age people, either my age or a little older. We would often talk about television shows when we were growing up. At the same time it was difficult for the younger ones to understand our obsession with Dallas until it was explained to them the same fanatical obsession they have with Game of Thrones, then they got it. While some of us remained loyal to the brand (Dallas) many agreed that the revelation from Bobby spinning in the shower broke the camels back for a lot of them.
The whole debacle of the Dream Season enforces my view the network (CBS) and those involved with Lorimar Productions were only concerned about the money the show was bringing in, especially from overseas markets - never mind how the audience were going to accept it. There is an interesting youtube video about the people involved (behind the scenes) on how they were going to do it.
Numerous discussions involving the resolution of returning a dead character has been spoken of but the best one I've read was, it was Bobby who had the dream, not Pamela. After the scene of Sue Ellen walking into the Ewing Oil and witnessing the explosion I picture a blurry image, from the perspective of Bobby lying in the hospital bed. At this point I'll add we don't know it's him. Initially we hear a quiet female voice. The vision is still blurry but then the voice we hear is Miss Ellie (Barbara Bel Geddes). As the vision becomes clearer we see Miss Ellie, sitting, wearing her glasses since she is reading from a book. A hand reaches out and gently touches Miss Ellie's arm. She stops speaking, looks down at her arm then looks directly into the camera (again we're seeing this from Bobby's perspective), a tear cascades down her cheek. "Bobby", says Miss Ellie.
Having this scene rather than the head turning Bobby in the shower cliffhanger would have worked better in my opinion.
I believe Cidre has said that the mother was to be previously unknown so that they could introduce a whole bunch of new relatives but since that was never stated on screen any new showrunner could just ignore it.
That's an interesting idea. There's just one flaw to it, because usually you wake up when you dream that you die. So actually if it should have been realistic it should have been Pam in that last explosion at Ewing Oil and then her waking up. But maybe if they'd done it like that it would have been obvious that she'd dreamt it. So I guess they went with blowing up of Jamie and Sue Ellen and then Pam waking up and finding Bobby in her shower as a way to create more mystery for the cliffhanger.
Sweet Lord, I've never had that kind of dream.
I stand corrected. I do recall reading that somewhere. However, if there was some secret daughter why bother with all the other relatives, since they wouldn't have any stake on the Ewing family. Perhaps it was Cynthia & Co's., way of pushing out the last remnants of the Ewing's and finally she could call Dallas her own.
My idea was just that Bobby had been in a coma for a year. JR and Miss Ellie conspired to send him away and declare he'd died of instead of pulling the plug. Neither could do it. Then they could have just picked up with Bobby coming out of a comma and learning to walk. Maybe even have other issues with memory and his personality. Could have forced JR to be more like Jock at that point, take care of an injured Sue Ellen and be a good(ish) husband and a better(ish) man while Bobby goes all sociopath - and Pam can't leave him after almost loosing him. Well an idea anyway.
Here is another thought provoking alternative ending to "Blast From The Past", and I'm still sticking with, this is Bobby's dream. We watch Sue Ellen enter JR's office and then the windows of Ewing Oil blast out. The debris cascades to the street. From street level there is a silence to the whole scene playing out in front of us. No people, no vehicles, no background music - just silence. As the dust begins to settle we see a lonely figure appear dressed in all white, there back is facing us. From the opposing view as the camera pans up from the street with debris still landing on the road we see a person - in bare feet - just standing there. The camera pans up to reveal Bobby, with an angelic expression, looking up at Ewing Oil. Of course we would require Bradford Mays expert camera work to give this scene the feel I so desire.
Cue end credits.
This would have freaked out the viewers.
All these years later and the post Bobby spinning in the shower still divides us. How on Earth do we return a dead character especially when the world, along with his family, watch Bobby flat-line, complete with a funeral/burial scene. I can just imagine when those creative types got together to nut out ideas. Perhaps we should blame the genius for killing off such an important character as Bobby. Once we went down that route watching Bobby die there was no coming back from that point.
I've read all the different scenarios how to return him. Doppelgänger (as if the Krystle Carrington/Rita Lesley story didn't divide viewers already), I'll also add this story had been done to death on daytime soaps so nothing creative there. Kidnapped by a ruthless enemy of JR or the Ewing family. Again this type of story requires the writers and producers to retcon the story, even filming scenes to justify the removal of Bobby's lifeless body from the hospital. I'll admit it's plausible but the biggest issue here was Patrick, the writers and producers. Patrick (for whatever reason) took a gamble on his popularity and decided to test the waters. When the realization dawned on him the greener pastures he so desired were not there he came scuttling back.
I believe we were so emotionally attached to the character we weren't prepared to have Bobby back at all, well I was anyway. Any creative type of story would still have been an insult to viewers only because his return enforced my view that the writers/producers were desperate and didn't care about the intellect we had grown accustomed from watching Dallas and oddly enough that was due to those same creative types.
Well I guess the reason why this storyline keeps dividing the fans into those who love the dream resolution with Bobby returning in the shower to those who would have prefered some other solution might have something to do with a couple of factors.
1. Did you watch Dallas in the original run or in reruns?
Because I think the fans like myself who watched these seasons for the first time in reruns and therefore knew about the dream resolution before watching it have easier to accept it since we knew all along it was a dream.
2. How did you feel about Pam and Mark?
If you like me disliked this couple a lot and preferred Pam with Bobby you were probably glad to have your favorite couple back together again for one last time even if it only lasted one season that season was marvellous.
Not to mention all the grief that Bobby's loved ones went through. In Season 9 DVD, we saw sides to characters that we seldom had before.
I've long said that that the dream was the only way to bring Bobby back after we all saw him run over and all saw him flatline. The question is why kill Bobby off and have all those storylines after his death, only to then bring Bobby back? They panicked at a bit of a drop in the ratings, yet the ratings fell much further and faster once Bobby came back. In reality, the drop in the ratings had nothing to do with Bobby at all.
I don't know about you, but I think the worst thing after the dream revelation was how an entire season's worth of storylines had suddenly never happened. It jars for a large part of Season 10. Cliff Barnes was nicer than he'd been since Seasons 1-2 during Season 9, yet Cliff was worse than ever in Season 10 once Pam woke up. These sort of things were really annoying.
The answer was simple.
1) you don't ever kill off some one so critical to a story. Put him in a coma at the end of the accident for crying out loud but you don't kill him.
2) and if you do, you don't bring him back. You create a good story with out him. They had a lot of potential but they failed to grab it up. Should have called in David Jacobs.
The simple truth wasn't what they were focused in. It was the money. Sad but true. Just like Cadre was focused on her money and not THE Dallas story. Artist always seem to fail both artisticly and financially when the money is the primary motivator.
For me it has been both. In its original airing I detested the revelation that what I watched the previous season was a dream - it was a bloody joke. Actually it was insulting. I was around 22 when I first viewed it and thanks in part to Dallas my intellect in watching shows like it had improved simply due to the quality of its writing and often thought provoking stories. It wasn't always about how filthy rich the Ewing family were.
My personal DVD collection finishes with the death of Bobby as I cannot bring myself to purchasing the remainder of the series, the reunion movies or TNT Dallas. It's Bobby's death which is the exclamation mark for me and my personal interest in what was once considered "must watch television."
To think the lead up to Bobby dying was the season when Dynasty obtained the No.1 ratings position. But then Dynasty does the unthinkable and pushes the envelope of good story-telling by having the "Moldavian Massacre". The following season return Dynasty had obviously pushed that envelope too far by dropping from 1st to 7th. Dallas on the other hand held its ground by dropping from 2nd to 6th. Not bad considering they lost a major character and introduced some Dynasty influences. The following season for Dynasty was much worse. They went from 7th to 25th while Dallas went from 6th to 11th. Still a respectable number given that the viewers had to accept the previous season was all a dream.
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