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Who's the king or queen of...

Discussion in 'Music' started by Willie Oleson, Aug 19, 2018.

  1. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    country?
    jazz?
    hardrock?
    indie rock?
    hi-nrg?

    Etc.

    And could there be a new queen of soul? Or is it no longer possible to become a legendary entertainer, in this day and age?
    The Queen Of Stream, perhaps?
     
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  2. James from London

    James from London Soap Chat Mega Star EXP: 18 Years

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    Well, Gladys Knight called herself the Empress of Soul so I'd go along with that.
     
  3. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle EXP: 19 Years

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    It helps if you're a Sun in Aries/Scorpio Rising, although this isn't strictly all music:

    Queen on Motown, Diana Ross
    First Lady of the American Screen, Bette Davis
    Queen of Soul, Aretha Franklin
    Queen of the feminist movement, Gloria Steinem
    Queen of the silent screen, Gloria Swanson
    Queen of Bebop, Sarah Vaughan
    Queen of Ice, Sonja Henie
    The Ultimate movie queen, Joan Crawford

    All are Sun in Aries/Scorpio Rising (with different Moon signs, which changes the substance). It's weird. People just call them that, the "queen of" --- it's a matter of talent, but also bearing. And "bearing" tends to mean ego, and they've sometimes gotten upset if they think their title has been usurped:

    Bette Davis had a fit when someone referred to Helen Hayes by her "first lady of the American stage" title because Davis thought her own "first lady of the American screen" was the same thing. And Aretha Franklin had a similar fit when someone referred to Tina Turner as "the queen of rock and roll" a few years ago because Aretha couldn't distinguish that from her own "queen of soul" moniker.

    But it works for boys, too: Chaplin, Brando, etc...

    They just seem important. And they agree.

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    But is it because they are the best, or because they had the opportunity to build a vast repertoire and become a legend? Or is that question too hypothetical?
    Would you say that Bette Davis has given the best performance of all time, and that Aretha Franklin has performed the best soul song of all time?
    Was there no better rock & roll music than Elvis? And if someone (today) would create better rock & roll music than Elvis, does that mean he/she deserves that title?

    And Kylie Minogue has been billed as the Goddess Of Pop, and I'm not sure if I'd go along with that.
    But if I had to choose between the best of Kylie and the best of Madonna...then Kylie wins. However, that choice would be based on favourite songs, rather than talent.
    They're both very talented and they're both not the best vocalists of all time.
    So...I'm still confused.

    Scarlett Johansson is currently the highest-paid actress, according to the yahoo home page. I never read yahoo news, I only use it for my yahoo mail account, but somehow this grabbed my attention.
    I *think* I've seen her name before, but I can't link it to anything in particular.
    She could be a legend in the making - right under my very nose - eventhough I'm not aware of it.
    Was it possible not to be aware of Elvis, Bette, Diana, Tina etc at the time they were in the process of becoming a legend?

    And then there's Justin Bieber - and that sort of pulls the rug from under my feet.
    Ironically, maybe The Irony of all ironies, I do consider him King of...modern music for young people. Simply because he's Justin Bieber.
     
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  5. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle EXP: 19 Years

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    Who's to say? I think it's a combination of being pretty damned good and wanting to be seen as the best. The audience can pick up on both.

    80% of the biggest silent film stars were Sun in Aries. While Scorpio Rising is truly the dark star of the universe. So put them together, and you've got, like, a thing. And it's slightly creepy (I'm talkin' to you, Mister Spock!)

    Elvis was also a Scorpio Rising (not Sag, as most internet charts suggest) although he was clearly a Sun in Capricorn.

    Also Scorpio Rising. And he does a good Elvis impersonation.
     
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  6. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator EXP: 15 Years Staff Member

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    I think to be king of pop or queen of soul the entertainer needs to be super talented of course but also be someone special who is very famous globally. Today with social media where anyone can have their 15 minutrs of fame it is harder to achieve that kind of status than in the past.
     
  7. Angela Channing

    Angela Channing World Cup of Soaps Moderator EXP: 20 Years

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    Queen Country - Dolly Parton
    King of Country - Kenny Rogers

    Queen of Jazz - Ella Fitzgerald
    King of Jazz - Duke Ellington

    King of Hardr Rock - Freddie Mercury
    Queen of Hard Rock - Debbie Harry

    King of Indie Rock - Michael Stipe (however, my personal favourite would be Sufjan Stevens)
    Queen of Indie Rock - I really like St Vincent but maybe she doesn't yet have the longevity to be crowned as queen. Can't think of anyone else at the moment

    Queen of Hi-NRG - Donna Summer
    King of Hi-NRG - Giorgio Moroder
     
  8. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    All the artists mentioned so far are very talented, there's no doubt about that.
    But what is special?
    Elvis, and rock&roll music in general meant a lot to that generation, and he was one of the first extremely successful artists in that genre (I think?)
    Now, I'm happy to believe that he's made the best rock&roll music ever, but sometimes I wonder, is it true? Or is it about making the most rock&roll music?
    And soapchat always ranks "In The Ghetto" as his best song ever. That's not even close to rock&roll.

    Madonna has sold a lot of records, but I fail to see what kind of impact she's had on my generation. There was a lot (and better) pop music before her.
    So that title seems to be based on sales and popularity.
    However, she did say, in one of her first interviews, that she was going to be the most famous artist ever (or something like that) - and she became one of the most famous artists.
    I'm tempted to say that she deserves her title because she's worked so hard for it.
    But is it the best pop music ever?

    It's funny how that works, because with so many sources it also creates the opportunity to ignore or overlook Big Talent.
    So I'm not convinced that celebrity status for all and sundry makes it harder for real talent to become legendary.

    Not Johnny Cash?
    I thought she was Queen Of Disco?
     
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  9. Angela Channing

    Angela Channing World Cup of Soaps Moderator EXP: 20 Years

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    I like Johnny Cash and he appeared in a great episode of Columbo but I prefer Kenny Rogers music and I think he has broader appeal I choose to crown him.

    As far as I'm concerned Donna Summer can be Queen of everything (except for when Diana Ross is a possible rival).
     
  10. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    But in terms of how much they've contributed to all kinds of music, don't you think Bob Dylan and Carole King should be king and queen of everything?

    And was Michael Jackson king of pop because of his best-selling album of all time (Thriller)? Because a lot of his music before that was soul/funk and motown.
    And what came after Thriller, well...many people loved it so there must be something good about it. But could you honestly say that he was better than, say, David Bowie?

    The point being, I'm not convinced that King Of This Or That automatically means that they were the best, although I'd struggle to build a case against Elvis and Dolly Parton.


    :think:
     
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  11. James from London

    James from London Soap Chat Mega Star EXP: 18 Years

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    Isn’t a king or queen more a figurehead than anything else? Elvis was the first rock n roll superstar so it makes sense to call him the King. I can’t think of a female pop star who successful in the same way as males were before Madonna so that makes her the Queen. And Michael Jackson was, or had been, the most successful pop star in terms of sales so when he started calling himself the King of Pop no one could be bothered to disagree.

    But to me there’s something about monolithic and stagnant about the idea of rock or pop royalty. It’s like the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame - it implies you’re part of the establishment, old, unthreatening and frozen in time - which is the opposite of pop, which is new, instant and now, and rock, which “should” be dangerous, rebellious and different. That’s why it’s good Bowie wasn’t the King of anything - he was too elusive, mercurial and alien for that. Same with Dylan.

     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
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  12. Emelee

    Emelee Soap Chat Mega Star EXP: 7 Years

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    Yes
    No
    Yes
    Yes

    I'd put Johnny Cash as king of country. He's more known globally and there are tons of merchandise on him on sites that sell celebrity merch.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]


    If you ask younger people, I don't think they've even heard the name Kenny Rogers, it's much more likely they've heard of Johnny Cash. At least many are aware of The Ring of Fire and his version of Hurt.

    Dolly Parton is a given. She's a household name. They even play a couple of her songs on the radio station I listen to (a station that plays "the best from the 80s up until today"). And when students at the school I work at had to sing a song for students from Scotland + teachers, they chose to sing Jolene. Even though they could choose any song ever written.
     
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  13. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    Yeah, I guess it's more about being the most significant, the artist who "dominates" the genre, as it were.
    Somehow I don't think he would have appreciated that title anyway.
     
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  14. Angela Channing

    Angela Channing World Cup of Soaps Moderator EXP: 20 Years

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    No, I didn't make myself clear, maybe I should have said "Queen of Anything". I meant Donna Summer could be Queen of more than one genre, not just disco. If I were to pick and overall Queen of all popular music, I would probably go for Joni Mitchell or Madonna and Elvis as the King.

    You may well be correct and it might be dependant of someone's age, but Johnny Cash's music passed me by and I have absolutely no recollection of his music when I was growing up whereas Kenny Rogers was often in the charts and on TV.
     
  15. Alexis Colby Carrington

    Alexis Colby Carrington Soap Chat Member EXP: 1 Year

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    Queen of Rock - Tina Turner
    Queen of Pop - Madonna.
     
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  16. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    I think he did a mini-series with Linda Evans?

    The only KR song I remember is "you've picked a fine time to leave me Lucille". And that song was not as big as "Rhinestone Cowboy" (one of the biggest and bestest country hits ever)
     
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  17. Richard Channing

    Richard Channing Soap Chat Star EXP: 6 Years

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    Actually I've more often heard her referred to as the Princess of pop, which seems to suit her quite nicely. Which reminds me, where does Prince figure in all of this? Or does he?

    And I suppose we should mention James Brown as 'The Godfather of Soul', although that's not really royalty. It sounds cooler than the King of Soul though.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
  18. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    ...just when I thought this topic had reached a satisfactory conclusion:mad:

    But I'm going to outfox you: Prince was The Symbol Of Pop Music
     
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  19. Angela Channing

    Angela Channing World Cup of Soaps Moderator EXP: 20 Years

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    You may well be right because I don't know very much about country music. I'm the total opposite to you because off hand I can't think of any Johnny Cash songs other than I Saw The Light and that is only because the character he played in an episode of Columbo sang it repeatedly throughout the episode that he was in. However, I can name several Kenny Rogers songs off the top of my head (Lucille, Coward of the County, The Gambler Islands In The Stream Lady and Ruby, Don't Take Your Love To Town). It might be and age thing or it could be because I'm not much of a country music fan and Kenny Rogers may have been more of a crossover star, appealing to a wider audience.

    I did a quick Google search on the best selling country albums of all time and Kenny Rogers Greatest Hits is number 6 so he clearly does have wide appeal.
     
  20. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson SoapLand Battles Moderator

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    I don't consider myself an expert, but it's not really an obscure music style.
    I did a top 40 search and he had 7 charthits (including his duets with Dolly and Sheena Easton) and Johnny Cash....only 2 (!!)
    I'm not sure what you're suggesting here:D but there's something about evergreens that makes it less relevant.
    If you've never heard this:

    then you must have made a huge effort to avoid it. But I don't think it's humanly possible for people of our generation not to know Ring Of Fire.
     

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