1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Why Make The Women In Dallas Stronger?

Discussion in 'Dallas - The Original Series' started by Kenny Coyote, Jan 9, 2020.

  1. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 12 Years

    Threads:
    134
    Messages:
    1,995
    Trophy Points:
    892
    Occupation:
    Rock Guitarist
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +2,164
    It depends on how you look at it, how you define strength. I do see how you can see it as strength. The reason I see it as weakness is because she doesn't have the strength of character to earn that money so she'll abuse the institution of marriage - one based on love - and pervert it to use it to take someone else's money instead of having the character and the work ethic to earn it herself. That marriage would be fraudulent. Where someone else might see it as she's brave enough to commit fraud, I see her as so weak as to resort to it. It's a weakness of character.

    Alright Rove. Sometimes it's hard to interpret the spirit in which something is said on the internet. To me it came across as contempt for women who decide to have children and raise them, as if there's something wrong with valuing raising a family more than having a career.

    In the situation of a woman in Sue Ellen's position, she spends her life raising her children and donating money to poor people instead of choosing to make more money. Since her husband is already doing that, she's doing those other things so that together they're making money, donating it to poor people and having a family instead of both of them just making money. I see that as having a more well wounded perspective on life. One of them doesn't have the time or the ability to do all those things, so the man and woman each use their own unique abilities to complement the abilities the other.
     
  2. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle EXP: 19 Years

    Threads:
    518
    Messages:
    7,150
    Trophy Points:
    6,136
    Occupation:
    INFJ
    Location:
    Haunting that cozy cellar under Falcon Crest
    Ratings:
    +9,222
    I only felt like any deficit in the women's strength on DALLAS pertained to Ellie and Pam, both of whom were indeed a bit squelched in the early seasons. It felt somewhat contrived. But Katzman didn't want the ladies who lived at Southfork to be too tough.

    Donna didn't live on the ranch. And Ellie could be "disgusted!" at the men on occasion as long as she wound up by season's end in the Krebbs' living room confessing guilt for everything including the holocaust.

    In contrast, I never thought Sue Ellen's self-destructiveness was somehow a result or a symptom of that -- that was just who she was at the time.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  3. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 12 Years

    Threads:
    134
    Messages:
    1,995
    Trophy Points:
    892
    Occupation:
    Rock Guitarist
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +2,164
    Why do you see it as just the women who have flaws or who sometimes aren't tough? I think Katzman gave characters flaws because he wanted to have interesting stories take place. If he had made Miss Ellie tougher, it would have killed the dramatic impact of Bobby threatening to leave which we saw in season four. If Mss Ellie had been tougher she wouldn't look at 30 year old Bobby moving out as "losing a son" but then it kills that story.

    The same with goes for Gary's situation - then it wouldn't have been dramatic when Gary left; it would just be natural.

    If you make Jock a better father, then maybe Gary doesn't leave at all and then you don't have Knot's Landing.

    If Bobby isn't such a spoiled, entitled brat, he doesn't try to steal JR's job while he 's recovering from gunshot wounds. If Bobby's tougher, he handles Jock and JR wanting to shut down Ewing 23 down like a man instead of: "I opened that field myself, just like a big boy"!

    If Pam is tougher, having a baby doesn't make her go crazy and you lose all of that storyline, including thinking Christopher was for her and Bobby and Bobby not feeling like he had to tell her yes.

    If JR's character is stronger, he doesn't cheat on his wife or in business and you lose all those stories.

    People who want to look for political motivations will always find an excuse to claim they exist. Katzman seemed to be understand that the flaws and weaknesses are where the stories are - that our flaws are what make us human.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle EXP: 19 Years

    Threads:
    518
    Messages:
    7,150
    Trophy Points:
    6,136
    Occupation:
    INFJ
    Location:
    Haunting that cozy cellar under Falcon Crest
    Ratings:
    +9,222
    Huh?
     
  5. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 12 Years

    Threads:
    134
    Messages:
    1,995
    Trophy Points:
    892
    Occupation:
    Rock Guitarist
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +2,164
    I was referring to this quote:

    I think Katzman gave the men and women flaws because he wanted to have good stories. It wasn't not political or a bias towards one gender. To me it looks like he knew that flawed characters make for good drama. Having the men and women all have weaknesses didn't work out too badly did it? It's damn hard to argue with success.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
  6. Dallas Fanatic

    Dallas Fanatic Soap Chat Member EXP: 1 Month

    Threads:
    1
    Messages:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    20
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Ratings:
    +20
    I always hear that the women were weak on this show, yet I just didn't see that with Linda Gray and Victoria Principal. In fact, some of the best scenes in the show are those when Pam stands up to JR. My favorite scene of all time is the very first scene in the episode after Pam learns that JR sent her to look for Mark Graison - when she barges in JR's office and says "you poisonous snake!"....one of the best scenes ever. I only wish there were more of them, and I wish Pam at some point would have beat JR at his own game the way Sue Ellen eventually did.

    Barbara Bel Geddes was incredibly strong. So, again, I know Dallas has a reputation of being a "man's show", but the women on that show were anything but weak. I do think they didn't serve the Pam character well the last couple of seasons Victoria Principal was on the show. I would hope to think that had Victoria Principal been persuaded to come back for the reboot, they would have written an incredibly strong character. It would have been fun to see her come back and stand up to all of the Ewings and to stand up to her diabolical brother.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Dallas Fanatic

    Dallas Fanatic Soap Chat Member EXP: 1 Month

    Threads:
    1
    Messages:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    20
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Ratings:
    +20
    I agree. Most of the women were anything but weak on this show. Katzman probably didn't respect them as much (like most producers in Hollywood, even today), but they wanted to pay VP a fortune to stay on the show, so they knew she had power and they knew the show would suffer without her. And it did.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 12 Years

    Threads:
    134
    Messages:
    1,995
    Trophy Points:
    892
    Occupation:
    Rock Guitarist
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +2,164
    Do you mean them or the characters they portrayed?

    OK, you do mean the actresses. That's a whole different discussion, but yes, Victoria Principal had the ability to command a salary offer that would have been the highest paid actress on TV. If you'd like to start thread on that, by all means go ahead and start one!

    This thread's about whether or not the female characters were disproportionately weak compared to the male characters, if it would have been better to make the female characters stronger, and if so, what the benefit would have been in doing that.

    I don't want to be repetitious, so if you're interested in why I say it was a positive thing for Dallas to have both the male and female characters not be too strong, and why it was smart to create them the way they did, with considerable weaknesses (character flaws), I cover that in depth in the original post of the thread. If you disagree with what I say in the OP, great! Just please explain why for the sake of discussion.

    @Dallas Fanatic, you say it's been 15 years since you posted here about Dallas? Congrats on returning! I'm Kenny Coyote and I do what I can for the forum as far as creating threads, getting conversations going, and doing it in a fun way. That's what I'm here for, that's what I like do. Anything I can help you with, just let me know. We've got a whole lot of other helpful people here as well, some of whom you may remember from when you were here before. Have fun!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Dream Maker EXP: 12 Years

    Threads:
    134
    Messages:
    1,995
    Trophy Points:
    892
    Occupation:
    Rock Guitarist
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +2,164
    I've made a case for why i think having the characters in Dallas have less weaknesses (character flaws) would not only not have been good for the show, but would have been detrimental.

    I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who still disagrees and who can describe why they think that making the characters stronger would have made the show better.
     

Share This Page