Would Dallas Have Been Better Off To Not Bring Patrick Duffy Back?

Discussion in 'Dallas - The Original Series' started by Kenny Coyote, Jun 9, 2017.

  1. Barbara Belle Of The Ball

    Barbara Belle Of The Ball Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Chris Evans on radio 2 this morning was tallking about the Simpsons and the jump the shark moment

    Some of his team didnt know what that meant and he explained it like Dallas when Bobby Ewing came back in the shower or Pams dream - people switched off.

    At the time in 1985 when Pat D left i was disappointed he was leaving and he made great press saying he was going onto do bigger and better things
    I was more than glad that the season he left BBG returned to her rightful role and that more than compensated for a lack of Bobby.

    Pat D didnt get the movie roles he hoped for - all a little bit lack lustre career wise and his saying I will never be back to Dallas or if they bring Bobby back it will be with another actor - did come back - i didnt mind as beloved Bob was back but a lot of friends thought OMG, what are they doing and switched off in droves, and most of them stopped watching when Pam left. I think the dream did spoil Dallas for many people and its credibiity went downhill (more) We already had a change of actress for one key role when momma became an automated robot for a year and that cheesed people off too that producers treated fans as idiots like we wouldnt notice!!

    Dallas with hindsight was never the same show again after pam left, it was on its downaward spiral to awfulness by s13/final. Larry was aways greedy re money but it hurt the show, and the more it cost the more they had to let other cast members go and it hurt the show bigtime
    by the end Larry and Pat were getting paid $$$ to turn up, have fun, be buddies and spout rubbish - but there was no one left bar Ken and it wasnt a Dallas i liked or recgnised anymore, i watched out out of loyalty to the great show and original cast i loved so much

    Also a few Dallas stars thought OMG when they brought in the likes of Linda Grays daughter to play Kehly, and nepotism always reigned with Katzman

    I think they are the cause of why Dallas was so bad in parts, im afraid, cant act, cheap and characters i didnt give one jot about, not in the Pam, Miss Ellie, Donna and Sue Ellen league. It was the dumbing down of Dallas in terms of acting, plots, scripts and thats why viewers left - if they were in mini or S1, i wouldnt be talking about Dallas 39 years on. I would have switched off long ago.
    Dallas was an 80s show and it belongs in the 80s with the iconic cast from mini to S6 original
     
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  2. JR Ewing Fan

    JR Ewing Fan Soap Chat Active Member

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    I don't even remember. It's had to have been over a decade though.
    I liked April. She was the last new character I liked. I liked Sasha Mitchell on Step by Step but he was awful in Dallas. George Kennedy was a great actor but Carter McKay was a very poor character. Even Kennedy couldn't do much with it.
     
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  3. Tullamore

    Tullamore Soap Chat Active Member

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    10 Sarah? Really? Lol
     
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  4. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    Yup. Why's that so hard to believe @Tullamore? Been a huge fan my whole life :)
     
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  5. Tullamore

    Tullamore Soap Chat Active Member

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    Ha only joking.

    I was about the same age
    I think....it was so long ago

    Lol
     
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  6. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    You don't know what year you were born? :bah:
     
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  7. Tullamore

    Tullamore Soap Chat Active Member

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    It was 19 something ahem lol
     
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  8. Tullamore

    Tullamore Soap Chat Active Member

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    I am older than Bobby on the shower, that's all I can say
     
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  9. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Star

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    The demise of Katherine - one of Dallas' best characters - still has me perplexed to this day. After her miraculous escape from the clutches of hell she returns in a big black hat and sunglasses and gives Bobby heart palpitations. She quietly visits Pam and offers a thinly veiled threat then vanishes.


    So I ask? What was the point of Katherine returning if nothing was to come of it? Then to rub salt into the wound, Cynthia Cidre & Co., years later just kill her off mid-sentence.
     
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  10. JR Ewing Fan

    JR Ewing Fan Soap Chat Active Member

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    I don't even remember. It's had to have been over a decade though.
    I don't think she knew Katherine was still alive. That was the problem with her. She didn't know enough of the Dallas backstory. It was like Bobby being mad at Afton. They had no animosity in the original series. Afton saved Bobby's life after Katherine shot him and continually tried to warn Pam about Katherine's interest in Bobby. There are other examples. TNT Dallas was just a wasted opportunity.
     
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  11. Mustard

    Mustard Soap Chat Fan

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    Bobby should have stayed dead. Dallas needed to move on to a new era. It was a good way for Bobby to go, the way he died at the end of Season 8, and all that grief that the characters all went through in Season 9, and I personally found Season 9 of Dallas to be a breath of fresh air. To undo all that season's storylines and the emotions that characters (and viewers) went through after Bobby's death was insulting to viewers, and made them feel like mugs.

    Season 10 still had some very good storylines with B.D. Calhoun and Nancy Scottfield. In some ways, it was a last hurrah with the old team, and Pam back living at Southfork for the first time since Season 6. But these storylines with Calhoun and Scottfield were later on in the season. The initial feeling in Season 10 is one of frustration at how storyline events from the last year never happened in this new reality, and how they take a new turn. The amount of sexism in Season 10 is also very obvious, and it was never like that before in Dallas.

    The writing was very good there, though. Abby was deliberately looking for a Ciji lookalike to distract Gary, and Lisa Hartman did play Cathy somewhat differently to Ciji, despite their similarities. Ciji was very much a person of what you saw was what you got, whereas Cathy was more guarded and more manipulative.

    According to the Season 11 storyline, a badly burned Pam left Bobby and went off with Katherine. From a storyline perspective, this was utterly bizarre. It was never explained how Pam chose to go off with Katherine, after Pam previously vowed that she never wanted to see Katherine again after discovering Katherine's actions in destroying Pam's first marriage to Bobby.

    The quality of the writing went downhill fast around that time. Pam was apparently dead, then burned to a crisp, and later disappeared with the hated Katherine while leaving Bobby and Christopher, while virtually none of the characters gave a damn about Pam's situation. It was a complete lack of professionalism, where certain bitterness from behind the scenes bled into the scripts.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017
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  12. pete lashmar

    pete lashmar Soap Chat Fan

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    After Bobby's return & the viewer reaction producers realised they couldn't kill Pam off because if VP asked to return they'd have the same problem all over again. But I agree, they handled her departure appallingly and the writing did suffer.
     
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  13. Presea

    Presea Soap Chat Addict

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    While it was true that Cidre didn't bother to watch probably over half of Dallas, it wouldn't have surprised me if she HAD known about Katherine being alive and just chose to ignore that and "kill" her anyway. It was all about Cidre's original characters. Sure, she had to include characters like Bobby, JR, and Sue Ellen. But mostly, she just didn't want too many of the original characters and their histories taking up space in her so-called masterpiece. By getting rid of Katherine off-screen, she was also free to possibly give Morgan Brittany a call to "revive" Katherine yet again if she ever felt like she needed a boost to the ratings to keep the show going. Cidre even said herself in an interview after being called out for the error with Katherine that she might decide that Katherine isn't dead if she wanted to. It was an insult to Morgan Brittany, who had already had the experience of being called up to be told "What if you're not dead?" It's basically like saying "We'll just use you whenever we feel the need for it." But I doubt Cidre had any intention of "reviving" Katherine. Why else would she be doing things like investing in costly car explosions, killing off a Ewing, and making a mystery daughter with a mother who had no relation to the original cast?
     
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  14. Presea

    Presea Soap Chat Addict

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    Actually, there really was no solid evidence that Pam left with Katherine. When Bobby questioned a man at Wentworth Industries, he claimed that he had not seen Katherine. Pam was not shown leaving with Katherine, and never said that that had happened. Also, Pam does not mention anything about Katherine when Cliff visits her after the accident. While it could be possible theoretically, and some fans have speculated that Katherine helped Pam to leave, there is no solid proof of this.
     
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  15. Mustard

    Mustard Soap Chat Fan

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    Victoria Principal clearly thought that Pam was being killed off.

    Mark Graison supposedly committed suicide near the end of Season 7 while suffering from a rare form of leukaemia, and it was written well over the next season to look like a faked death. Mark comes back in Season 9 where he and Pam are happier than ever, but Mark's comeback was all a dream and it never happened while Bobby never died (except in the Knots Landing universe). And then Pam's death never happened either, for fear of Victoria doing a Patrick Duffy and coming back. A mess all round.

    They basically turned Cliff into Katherine, only worse and more one dimensional. Katherine was one of the best villains in Dallas, with very understandable motives for going off the rails, too. Cidre's Dallas didn't seem to get the characters here. Cliff is supposed to be the overambitious anti-Ewing cynic who gets in over his head much of the time, but who loves his sister Pam even if he sometimes treats her bad because he's obsessed with whatever ambition is on his mind at the time. TNT Dallas turned Cliff into an evil madman.

    I can't remember the exact line, but when Pam "disappeared" from the hospital, there was a description of Pam leaving with a woman who sounded like Katherine, and Katherine was previously there in the hospital confronting Bobby. Who else could it be? Katherine was the one with the evil schemes from behind the scenes, ever since she turned psycho after shooting Bobby in J.R.'s office in the Season 7 cliffhanger, and used more plots to try to kill Bobby and hurt those close to him.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017
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  16. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Star

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    There is no doubt regarding that after reading Victoria's statement surrounding rumours of her imminent return to TNT Dallas. "When I filmed Pam’s fatal car accident, for me that was the punctuation mark on my role as Pam. I cannot be held responsible for any choices made by producers, once I left ‘Dallas’, but I do take responsibility for my decision, not to risk tarnishing Bobby & Pam’s love story, with a desperate reappearance. I made this decision a long time ago with a loving and respectful heart for ‘Dallas’, Bobby & Pam and all faithful fans.”
    Clearly the producers screwed up here. Pam surviving the car accident was their doing in the faint hope she may do an about face. No way. Full stop. Victoria stuck with her decision and despite what others say in other parts of the world wide web Victoria was not holding our for more money. If she had accepted Lorimar Productions generous offer to stay it would have made her the highest paid actress on television.
    Rumours of Pam being recast would not have worked after the dismal failure of Donna Reed. How much more could Dallas viewers endue? Not much if you read the ratings after Patrick's return. Dallas was already spiraling towards the slippery slope of the television graveyard. All Lenny had left in his bag of tricks was to hire another actress that closely resembled Victoria and close off the character. I couldn't even buy this. A horrible way to treat a character so embedded into the Dallas psyche.
     
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  17. SantaCarrintonEwingsBells

    SantaCarrintonEwingsBells Soap Chat Addict

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    The Pam situation was so badly mishandled, especially for a show that had notched up ten years on the air almost.

    TPTB had really put themselves in a corner with this one as

    1: After the Donna Reed debacle which was still very recent, a recast was out of the question

    2: After doing a complete 180 on Bobby, killing off Pam outright was also out of the question in case VP wanted to return to the series

    Then when they did try to resolve it over a year later, they still messed up as this created more questions about Pam and didn't resolve the existing ones.
     
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  18. Thornton McLeish

    Thornton McLeish Soap Chat Member

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    I still don't agree with that. As stated before, the return of Duffy actually helped to stall the ratings. I'm not saying that people enjoyed the dream idea, but his return clearly worked. Looking at the ratings, it seems that Principal's departure was the last straw for a significative part of the audience.

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  19. Sarah

    Sarah Super Moderator Staff Member Original Member Since 1998

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    I really hate that 'jump the shark' expression. It's really bad English and doesn't make sense!!!!! It's used far too often now. :scream:

    It's such a shame in my opinion that viewers started to leave when Principal did. Gray and Bel Geddes deserved better.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
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  20. Karin Schill

    Karin Schill Super Moderator Staff Member

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    It looks to me like the ratings kept ping-ponging back and forth a lot after season ten. So what I would like to know is what the peaks represents?
    Which episodes drew in a larger rating and why?
     

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