Would Victoria Have Stayed 1 More Season If She Hadn't Been Misled About Pam Dying In The Accident?

Discussion in 'Dallas - The Original Series' started by KayLloyd, Aug 26, 2017.

  1. tommie

    tommie Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    Dack Rambo.

    She was fighting for him to be on the show despite Larry Hagman hating on him. Such a sweet caring person!
     
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  2. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

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    You're so silly. Like they had someone call Dack a "fag" in the script.
     
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  3. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    I find it rather childish and naive of VP (if this story is true) to not be able to separate her own identity from a character she played on TV. If an actress is so offended by characters in the show she's in saying and doing bad things, then wouldn't Dallas, which was notorious for its portrayal of human beings acting so horribly to one another, be one of the last acting jobs she would have chosen to not only be part of but play one of the starring roles and remain there for 10 years?

    I don't know what the context was or what the particular slang was but since Pam saying an insulting slang word seems somewhat out of character for Pam if she was saying it with the intent to hurt the feelings of a gay person, as overprotective as she was of Cliff, it seems more likely Pam was talking to Mark (according to script) and said something like:

    Pam: I know the expression "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me", yet I'm still so angry I overheard JR saying Cliff must be queer! And all because Cliff is in his 50's and had never married until he married Jamie last year and somehow now word has gotten out that Cliff can't even put the wood to his own wife."

    Mark: Pam, you know I don't like JR, and I'm certainly not defending him or his choice of words, but didn't you find it kind of shady how Cliff had practically just met Jamie and even though she's a Ewing, and we know Cliff hates the Ewings, that he'd marry her of all people - JR's own cousin?

    Pam: But...

    Mark: Hold on, just let me finish. Even if we give Cliff the benefit of the doubt about wanting to marry into the Ewing family, don't you find it more than a little suspicious how he was in such a hurry to marry her that he didn't even let Jamie have time to get a wedding dress, and it just so happened that Cliff and Jamie were going to court the very next week to try to get two thirds of Ewing Oil? You don't suppose Cliff's motivation for marrying Jamie was his passion for gaining ownership of two thirds of Ewing Oil more so than his passion for Jamie do you?
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
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  4. pete lashmar

    pete lashmar Soap Chat Fan

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    Don't agree with you at all I'm afraid, as a gay man that lived through the 80's, being spat at & hit because of AIDS and it's effect on how people viewed gay men VP's stance was the correct one. Using a slang/bigotry word and therefore feeding the flames of hate was not acceptable to her and she had every right to voice her opinion. If it was the N word relating to a black character people would have deemed it unacceptable, no different to the F word for gay people.
     
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  5. TJames03

    TJames03 Soap Chat Addict

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    VP is a goddess, bar none! She wasn't afraid to tell the actors or the show, FU! Suck on that Hagman and Duffy! Let Gray be your "yes man."
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
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  6. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    I would agree with you if Dallas were a documentary, but its fiction! Think of how many innocent people have died because of being shot by a bad person. If words which aren't even considered profanity are enactable as you say, then how about depicting murder? There's a lot more hate in the man who executes a person than in the man who uses crude, bigoted words, wouldn't you agree? I don't need to set up a poll to see if one were to come across someone who hates him, which would be worse - to be called the worst word imaginable or to be shot with the possibility of either ending up dead or like Mickey Trotter. And yet it's almost at the point where its hard to find a TV show that depicts innocent people being murdered while it's incredibly rare to come across a TV series where the word fag is used.

    My favorite musician, Tori Amos, used that word in her song "Taxi Ride" and despite whatever Victoria Principal might think, Tori, who started her career as a high school kid playing gay bars at night (her minister father wouldn't let her play at non-gay clubs because he was afraid of men trying to hit on his young daughter), has an enormous number of gay and lesbian fans and and is also a huge supporter of the organization RAINN (Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network) and she has a song entitled "Me And A Gun" which is about her real life experience of being raped at gunpoint. I find rape to be the most serious crime there is along with murder, yet we don't say "The R word" do we? When will society understand saying a word doesn't mean you condone what the word means? There is no way to tell if a non-profane word is wrong to use unless you first know the context!

    Context is everything when it comes to words which is why I think it's ridiculous that society has gotten to the point where language containing words which are profanity, even the worst words such as the one that is a combination of two words and the first is "mother" are thrown around so casually, yet these very same people when recounting what they heard someone say, such as, for example, a racial slur that is a crude variation on the word negro, they won't even utter the word. Not that the person to whom they're speaking would believe the person is condoning the word; they're simply describing a verbal exchange they overheard. It's so outlandish, it's political correctness taken to such an absolutely absurd extreme that it reminds me of the lyrics of a song which are about our country and include the phrase "watch a fading nation crawl." Americans never used to be so weak they couldn't rise above a word.

    The ultimate hypocrisy is that very word, a crude racial slur which is a variety of the word negro is apparently all over hip hop music This word which is apparently considered so abhorrent that it can't even be uttered or written in 21st century America may very well be the single most used word in hip hop music - a form of music predominantly popularized and performed by the very race of people who are the target of that particular racial slur. Have you ever heard of something so hypocritical? The blatant racism involved when it's very apparent that American citizens don't have equal freedom when it comes to what type of language they are allowed to use. Making different rules for how people can behave and speak based upon their race is blatant racism!
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
  7. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    I recall Oprah Winfrey interviewing someone from the hip hop scene and taking offense to that word we dare not speak. If I recall she nailed the African American hip hop artist for using that word as if it was their right to do so. Her argument was that word was/is inflammatory to her community and it has taken years to be rid of that word. For some reason the African American hip hop/rap artist have taken ownership of that word and believe they are entitled to use it. Imagine the outcry if some whiter than white hip hop/rap artist used that word. The outcry would be deafening.
     
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  8. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Well-Known Member

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    Hip hip and rap are not anything I'm a fan of although when I was in college, one of the biggest hits among the dance music crowd (I'm mostly into hard rock and heavy metal although I love Tori Amos and like some other very different types of music such as Pink Floyd, many other classic rock bands, and the Twin Peaks soundtrack and Twin Peaks:Fire Walk With Me soundtrack) was a song everyone here probably remembers whether they liked it or not - "Can't Touch This"by MC Hammer. The first time I heard it I immediately realized he was ripping of "Superfreak" by Rick James (who I prefer to MC Hammer). Then in the mid and late 90s I listened to just a little gangsta rap - not because I thought the music was good but because I found the lyrics entertaining - kind of like an audio description of the movie Scarface with Al Pacino!

    Anyway, just as in NWA's "F*CK The Police" controversy really sells, especially in rap and hip hop it seems. Face it, these guys aren't exactly virtuoso musicians and as far as I'm concerned unless they can actually sing or play a musical instrument they aren't musicians at all, not matter how many rhymes they can repeat in a rhythmic manner. I did see the movie 8 Mile though so I know a little about Eminem and I'll give him the due, he is good at what he does. Of course a big part of that is being very controversial.

    So when you mentioned the idea of the deafening outcry that would ensue if, say, Eminem were to have that certain N word appear all over the single from his next album and maybe even have it in the title which would drive disc jockeys nuts when they had to announce the name of the new song, I'm asking, in your opinion, would the massive outcry and all the free press that would go along with it, would it be a lucrative business move or would it kill his career? I think either scenario is very possible, including assassination attempts on him by black militant groups.
     
  9. TJames03

    TJames03 Soap Chat Addict

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    Hilarious that Hagman had a problem with Rambo, but, according to Rambo, Mary Martin was a big old 'lez.....(too blunt....?)...
     
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  10. tommie

    tommie Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    Nah, Mary definitively liked licking that bridge.

     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
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  11. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

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    Soon, this thread is going to morph into "Victoria left DALLAS because she refused the producers' huge financial offer for her to call Dack Rambo a 'f*gg*t' -- and I applaud/condemn her for it!"

    Or has that already happened yet?
     
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  12. pete lashmar

    pete lashmar Soap Chat Fan

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    You have to remember the time frame here, we live in the age of internet and 24/7 access to anything we want, websites that teach hatred, ones that encourage young people to have eating disorders, video sites that show just about anything someone wishes to watch. Yet there are still taboo subjects and words that are not acceptable on television.

    Taking that back to the Dallas Years, it was far less acceptable on television then - everything is of it's age and time and I'm sure in another 30 or 40 years what is not acceptable now will be the norm (unfortunately).

    Gangster Rap/hip hop, with it's expletives - or any kind of music with them for that matter, doesn't get airtime on TV and Radio unless it's an edit, and the reason is because it's unacceptable language for many people and advertisers would take their money away. Yes there are some channels/stations that play that kind of music 24/7 but they're niche and not mainstream.

    Even now in the UK, if someone used the F word or the N word on national TV or radio it would still be deemed unacceptable.

    That said, what some people find offensive others do not, I suppose it's entirely due to who you are and what your life experience has been.

    For me, VP took a stand on a word that she personally found very offensive and in the world of Hollywood I'm sure she had many gay friends and associates and therefore that decision was right for her - another actor may not have had a problem with it, but she did & I think she was right in stating her nonacceptance of the word and therefore getting it changed.

    What stands out even clearer though is that the writers/execs had absolutely no concept of the word they were asking her to say, and by allowing a production shut down because of it really proved that they had very poor judgement indeed.
     
  13. TJames03

    TJames03 Soap Chat Addict

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    There's absolutely no reason why a word such as that would make any sense in an episode no matter who would be saying it. I applaud VP for not saying it. That would be a word that Hagman would say, no one with any class.....
     
  14. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle

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    Except she probably made the story up.
     
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  15. TJames03

    TJames03 Soap Chat Addict

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    Are you implying that VP isn't always truthful..... ?

    :)
     
  16. tommie

    tommie Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    Never mind the hater who thinks that Victoria is older than 29 and not just someone who quite simply have found a way to challenge the space/time continuum.
     
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  17. Willie Oleson

    Willie Oleson drilling for soap

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    Question:
    Does it concern actors how they are written out of the story, or what happens to "their" character after they have left the show?
    I've always wondered just how much they are involved with all this, how much control they have (in case they really care).
     
  18. pete lashmar

    pete lashmar Soap Chat Fan

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    Ultimately it's the execs & writers who make such decisions, however some actors ask to go out with a bang like Patrick did (and got killed & resurrected within a year) and others ask the door to be left open. It all depends on whether characters are worth returning or not. In the UK soap EastEnders Martine McClutchen asked to leave but was very angry when writers decided to kill off her character because they were angry that she quit.
     
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  19. Rove

    Rove Soap Chat Enthusiast

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    I suspect it depends on the person. While some relish walking away, others may have an issue (after years of devoted service) find it frustrating what happens to the character after they've left. I'm positive I read or heard Ron Moss (Ridge Forrester on The Bold and the Beautiful) was peeved when the producers decided to recast the character he had invested 25 years of his life into. I'd be slightly annoyed as well however if you have made the decision to leave and cut all ties then I suppose the producers are within their rights to recast. That is not to say the producers always get it right. Look at the Donna Reed stuff up.
     
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  20. Toni

    Toni Soap Chat Star

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    Actually she´s become a walking paradox now, that´s why she doesn´t appear in the press! She started her own space trip the day Branson post-poned their ride!

    [​IMG]

    See? She´s all smiles. Until she heard the guy in the plane say: "Hey it´s Pam Ewing!"​
     

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