1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Would You Take Back The Later Years?

Discussion in 'Dallas - The Original Series' started by Bobby Southworth, Feb 21, 2020.

  1. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Enthusiast EXP: 12 Years

    Threads:
    149
    Messages:
    2,183
    Trophy Points:
    1,098
    Occupation:
    Rock Guitarist
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +2,349
    It's business and a show like Dallas wouldn't have stopped in 1985 with a 21 rating. They didn't know that they wouldn't have more seasons at the top, and even in 1987 they had an 18.6 rating. Season 11 dropped to 15.2 but they didn't know they wouldn't increase the next year. Besides, the shows today would kill for a 15.2 rating!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Via The Void

    Via The Void Soap Chat Well-Known Member EXP: 3 Years

    Threads:
    5
    Messages:
    785
    Trophy Points:
    480
    Ratings:
    +1,375
    I definitely wouldn't negate the Wes Parmalee storyline of season ten.

    I still think he was really Jock Ewing & left because he wanted to spare the family any more pain.

    Steve Forrest was a good actor, he would've been a great Jock Ewing.

    I found out recently that Steve Forrest was told that he was going to be the new Jock Ewing. Such a shame the Producers backtracked & wrote him out. :(
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. Swami

    Swami Soap Chat Supreme

    Threads:
    647
    Messages:
    12,243
    Trophy Points:
    5,142
    Occupation:
    Civil Servant
    Location:
    Ballymoney, Co Antrim
    Ratings:
    +10,635
    I would agree he was an excellent actor, and an excellent supporting cast member, but only one man was Jock Ewing - Jim Davis.

    Swami
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Via The Void

    Via The Void Soap Chat Well-Known Member EXP: 3 Years

    Threads:
    5
    Messages:
    785
    Trophy Points:
    480
    Ratings:
    +1,375
    Hi Swami, normally I would agree whole heartedly with you.

    However, that Wes storyline really shook the family up.

    Who was he? Was he Jock or not?

    The intention by the writers & Producers was for him to be Jock but the backlash by the fan's made them change their minds. I just think that was a shame. The show needed a lift around season ten & instead of bringing in Sasha Mitchell, Gayle Hunnicutt & George Kennedy in the following season, Steve Forrest would've been more ideal as Jock. :)
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  5. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle EXP: 19 Years

    Threads:
    532
    Messages:
    7,337
    Trophy Points:
    6,642
    Occupation:
    INFJ
    Location:
    Haunting that cozy cellar under Falcon Crest
    Ratings:
    +9,444
    No, that was Sue Ellen.
     
  6. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Enthusiast EXP: 12 Years

    Threads:
    149
    Messages:
    2,183
    Trophy Points:
    1,098
    Occupation:
    Rock Guitarist
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +2,349
    I think it was a bad move to have a storyline about Jock maybe still being alive in the season where we found out Bobby was still alive even though we saw him die. I have seen the interview with the behind the scenes people (it's an extra feature on the 10th season DVDs) and they said they never intended to have Wes turn out to be Jock; it wasn't even something they'd consider. They said something about intentionally featuring the portrait of Jock often to keep the memory of Jim Davis as Jock alive-- to reinforce that there was only one Jock.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Swami

    Swami Soap Chat Supreme

    Threads:
    647
    Messages:
    12,243
    Trophy Points:
    5,142
    Occupation:
    Civil Servant
    Location:
    Ballymoney, Co Antrim
    Ratings:
    +10,635
    Bringing in George Kennedy wasn't a bad idea, but the character wasn't very written, too often given to cartoonish rages. I'm pretty sure there would also have been a backlash from the cast if they had proposed recasting the role of Jock.

    The likes of Sasha Mitchell, Kimberley Foster, Jeri Gaile - arguably the three worst newcomers - was all about cutting costs. And it showed with their woeful performances.

    Swami
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Clubsoda

    Clubsoda Soap Chat Active Member

    Threads:
    6
    Messages:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    781
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +279
    It doesnt bother me as I choose to ignore the last 4 seasons (and anything that aired after) exist.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Bobby Southworth

    Bobby Southworth Soap Chat Member EXP: 3 Months

    Threads:
    11
    Messages:
    55
    Trophy Points:
    74
    Location:
    Ohio
    Ratings:
    +61
    I have also read that they never intended for Wes to be Jock. However, hindsight is 20/20. Maybe they were considering it before Patrick Duffy came back, unless they were afraid because of the Donna Reed replacing Miss Ellie scenario. Who knows. Of course, in that case, Ben Stivers would have been Jock, not Wes. I enjoyed the story line. Who wouldn't wish someone they love back to life? That said, you would think, even with Wes Parmalee's drastic, unrealistic plastic surgeries, the family would have known if Wes was their father. The show never touched on certain aspects, such as Wes remembering things about his son's childhood and upbringing. We only were confronted with memories Jock would have had in his Dallas existence, which makes the whole thing look kind of silly in retrospect.
     
  10. Herofan

    Herofan Soap Chat Active Member EXP: 1 Year

    Threads:
    33
    Messages:
    136
    Trophy Points:
    174
    Location:
    U.S.
    Ratings:
    +162
    That’s true. In a similar vein, while they were in South America searching for Jock, weren’t all the memories and flashbacks just from the last few years that were on camera?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Enthusiast EXP: 12 Years

    Threads:
    149
    Messages:
    2,183
    Trophy Points:
    1,098
    Occupation:
    Rock Guitarist
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +2,349
    The whole family, only with the exception of Miss Ellie never believed Wes was Jock. It's one of those situations where they created drama for the sake of drama, depth there being plenty of reasons why Wes couldn't have been Jock, such as did the accident make his whole skeleton shrink?

    I can understand why they didn't have Wes talk about things didn't see, because we didn't see them! So, they wouldn't have been relevant to our memories of Jock and Dallas in general.

    Always thought it was weird that Ellie didn't call the police when he admitted he was a fraud. Her reaction was so weak! Clayton showed an understandable reaction- this guy had tried to wreck his marriage and had caused his whole family a huge amount of grief. So Clayton wanted to kill him. If somebody tried to do that to my marriage I'd want to kill him too.
     
  12. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Enthusiast EXP: 12 Years

    Threads:
    149
    Messages:
    2,183
    Trophy Points:
    1,098
    Occupation:
    Rock Guitarist
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +2,349
    It's a fictional show so there were no "memories and flashbacks" except from the ones that were on camera!
     
  13. Toni

    Toni Soap Chat Mega Star EXP: 18 Years

    Threads:
    43
    Messages:
    3,334
    Trophy Points:
    4,844
    Occupation:
    Aspiring writer and factual webmaster
    Location:
    Fletcher Sanitarium, Barcelona, Spain
    Ratings:
    +5,862
    Maybe Wes told Miss Ellie something else, eg that he knew that J.R. was Digger´s son! And threatened with revealing the whole thing if he didn´t have a luxury life in Acapulco! So she agreed and tried to convince the family that he wasn´t Jock (and of course he wasn´t, he just heard him talk about "that s.o.b. J.R., Digger´s son I raised..."). I´m kidding, no need to say it...but it was just funny that we didn´t see that last scene of Jock and Ellie.

    [​IMG]

    "Oh Wes, I got you...Takapa a taco franchise ain´t..." ​
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  14. Bobby Southworth

    Bobby Southworth Soap Chat Member EXP: 3 Months

    Threads:
    11
    Messages:
    55
    Trophy Points:
    74
    Location:
    Ohio
    Ratings:
    +61
    No, we didn't see those early memories with Jock and his sons or Miss Ellie, but you have to wonder.. If Wes was really Jock, surely some of those would have come up, at least off camera. Bobby and J.R. were never convinced for a second that Wes was Jock. If any of those things came up that only Jock would know, it seems Bobby and J.R. would have at least had some question. Unless, we were expected to believe that Jock rambled off his whole life story when he had that fever.

    There are things, details as parents raising children that a parent wouldn't forget. Perhaps that's part of the reason J.R. and Bobby never bought it. I guess for me, that, and the fact that you would think Miss Ellie would somehow know a man she was married to for what, nearly 50 years, make it seem very unlikely that he could have been Jock.

    It was a fun plot, and the writers did a good job of making us wonder, based on what we had experienced with the Jock character. However, I don't think Jock would have considered selling Ewing oil to anyone, let alone Jeremy Wendell.
     
  15. James from London

    James from London Soap Chat Winner EXP: 18 Years

    Threads:
    48
    Messages:
    3,587
    Trophy Points:
    6,636
    Occupation:
    Actor
    Location:
    Brixton
    Ratings:
    +6,206
    Wes reminded Ellie about "that time that Punk lent us his lodge down at the lake for that second honeymoon I took you on. You think it meant any less to me than it did to you? Neither one of us were kids then, Ellie, but it was like we were eighteen again."
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. Herofan

    Herofan Soap Chat Active Member EXP: 1 Year

    Threads:
    33
    Messages:
    136
    Trophy Points:
    174
    Location:
    U.S.
    Ratings:
    +162
    Even if Jr and Bobby didn’t believe Wes, I believe at some point, I would have put him to the test and asked him a slew of questions just to see how he could handle it. On the other hand, if Wes really was Jock, at some point, he should have had an “ask me anything” session.

    I agree that Jock would not have sold Ewing oil. At the ball, he also said if you had business with Ewing Oil now, he was the one to talk to. That seemed odd to me. He retired years ago. He acted as though he were still running the company when he disappeared.

    I also thought it was a fun story. I really enjoyed it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Kenny Coyote

    Kenny Coyote Soap Chat Enthusiast EXP: 12 Years

    Threads:
    149
    Messages:
    2,183
    Trophy Points:
    1,098
    Occupation:
    Rock Guitarist
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ratings:
    +2,349
    I always thought he was a con man. Nobody looks that different, accident and plastic surgery notwithstanding. His whole build was different. His mannerisms were different, his way of speaking was different and he had no visible scars. He was supposedly burned that badly and had no scars on his face or neck? Look at what happened to Pam - no plastic surgeon is so good that he wouldn't have had scars on his face.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Swami

    Swami Soap Chat Supreme

    Threads:
    647
    Messages:
    12,243
    Trophy Points:
    5,142
    Occupation:
    Civil Servant
    Location:
    Ballymoney, Co Antrim
    Ratings:
    +10,635
    I agree, it was a good storyline but sensible that Jock wasn't recast.

    Swami
     
  19. Snarky's Ghost

    Snarky's Ghost Soap Chat Oracle EXP: 19 Years

    Threads:
    532
    Messages:
    7,337
    Trophy Points:
    6,642
    Occupation:
    INFJ
    Location:
    Haunting that cozy cellar under Falcon Crest
    Ratings:
    +9,444
    The ambivalence of the Wes Parmalee plot is what made it work --- in fact, the story almost defines DALLAS. Both in its messiness and it's did-that-just-happen? ghostliness.

    It's effin' Hamlet.

    Like the characters, the viewers were torn over whether Wes was, wasn't, or might be Jock. And torn over whether the show should even be doing this at all, let alone right on the heels of Bobby being revived -- via a dream, no less. But much of the brilliance of the Parmalee plot was that there was enough red herring tossed out there that the audience could not only come to their own conclusions about Wes's identity, but could even assume that that conclusion was self-evident.

    Even when Wes disappeared, it was right after Jeremy Wendell told him his sole goal was to destroy the Ewing family (before Bobby returned from Colombia with whatever evidence he had collected). Wes even told Miss Ellie that he'd had an identical family history to that of Jock's.

    The Who Knows? question hanging in the air and unanswered was part of the haunting appeal of the storyline which tapped into everything that DALLAS was about at its core.

    Even if we could undo Donna Reed and the dream resolution, I still wonder if the series should have ended when Sue Ellen shot JR, or maybe a year later when she left town for good. But if we could fix those things, we could also fix the last two or three years.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2020
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  20. Bobby Southworth

    Bobby Southworth Soap Chat Member EXP: 3 Months

    Threads:
    11
    Messages:
    55
    Trophy Points:
    74
    Location:
    Ohio
    Ratings:
    +61
    It was interesting to me that Wes told Miss Ellie he would see her again one day.... why? If he wasn't Jock, what did that mean? I don't think he was Jock for all the reasons I've purposed, but what dd that anticipate?
     

Share This Page